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ModMan18

A Couple Items I Find Interesting

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The dollars cleared as profit from having Super Dirt Week at Oswego will not even stay in New York. World Racing Group (Super Dirt Week owners) are based in Charlotte, North Carolina. And Circle T Mototsports LLC, owners of Oswego Speedway (partial ownership I may add) are based in Homestead, Florida. I wonder if Cuomos' office even did any research to verify that the New York taxpayers money would benefit any companies/corporations in New York? I don't think so.The other tidbit that I found interesting is the other partial owner of Oswego Speedway. Property tax/ownership information is available to the public. You can go to the county website and get that information. I was floored to see who co-owns Oswego Speedway with Circle T Motorsports LLC. All I will say is "show me the governments' money" (Glenn is not the only one). And it would appear there were some "political backdoor deals" to have Super Dirt Week in Oswego.  JMO

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Riiight, cause none of the projected 70K people that go to Oswego wont visit any local restaurants, any local bars, any local grocery stores, any local gas stations and lets not forget, not one single hotel room will be booked. Oh and none of that revenue for the track wont stay either. So no, I would say no money will benefit Oswego or NY. No tax money will be generated cause there wont be any sales at any of the things I listed.

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46 minutes ago, PaGeOrGaBleBHisable said:

70k? 

Try 5k

Do we really have to do this? From every article written about super dirt week.

"NAPA Super DIRT Week is an annual economic driver for Central New York. The event attracts 70,000 fans and competitors and contributes $12 million to the local economy. This year that will strongly benefit Oswego County and the City of Oswego"

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1 hour ago, ask0329 said:

Riiight, cause none of the projected 70K people that go to Oswego wont visit any local restaurants, any local bars, any local grocery stores, any local gas stations and lets not forget, not one single hotel room will be booked. Oh and none of that revenue for the track wont stay either. So no, I would say no money will benefit Oswego or NY. No tax money will be generated cause there wont be any sales at any of the things I listed.

I completely agree with you. These are all things I thought the community could benefit from with the CNYRP project.  And for several events a season. Not just DIRTweek. 

I'm trying to figure though, how could NYS come up with this money for Oswego? But couldn't come up with the money promised to CNYRP?

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Chris, it isn't a mystery person. It's you.myself and millions of other people in New York. But, if you must know (and I don't know why I should have to do your research for you), it is Oswego County Industrial Development Agency. I can tell you, the money they give/grant/loan to businesses all come from the state and federal governments. And those funds all are supposed to go to create permanent jobs, not help failing/dying racetracks. Oswego Speedway has not been "up to par" in years. Why do you think all the owners for the past three decades have failed to repair the backstretch bleachers? The NYS Comptroller is auditing and bringing to task most county IDAs regularly for handing out money to "white elephants" and not creating jobs.And they got spanked for it last year.

http://www.osc.state.ny.us/press/releases/apr15/042815.htm

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40 minutes ago, ModMan18 said:

Chris, it isn't a mystery person. It's you.myself and millions of other people in New York. But, if you must know (and I don't know why I should have to do your research for you), it is Oswego County Industrial Development Agency. I can tell you, the money they give/grant/loan to businesses all come from the state and federal governments. And those funds all are supposed to go to create permanent jobs, not help failing/dying racetracks. Oswego Speedway has not been "up to par" in years. Why do you think all the owners for the past three decades have failed to repair the backstretch bleachers? The NYS Comptroller is auditing and bringing to task most county IDAs regularly for handing out money to "white elephants" and not creating jobs.And they got spanked for it last year.

http://www.osc.state.ny.us/press/releases/apr15/042815.htm

You don't know why you should have to do the research for us???

Maybe because you brought it up???

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But Oswego already benefits from the speedway, when they have some big events there, pretty sure visitors will spend some dollars in the town,...

SDW, will bring a influx of people in October that the town didn't plan, will it bring 70K in people, I highly doubt but should bring enough to the community to make everyone happy!

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Sounds like you've got a bone to pick with the state. Write your state rep about it. Me personally I'm happy to see my tax dollars spent on racing rather then on some stupid rehabilitation program that won't work or a program that makes key chains to remind you to not text and drive. Not all the money is going to benefit every single local business. Plus WRG does employ people from New York and I'm sure that all the hotels do as well, and if they don't have customers they close simple business 101. Your acting like you've just seen the shooter in the grassy nole in the Zapruder film and your flapping your arms around yelling "conspiracy!". There's so many reasons I'm happy they got at least a little of that money and not somethong else. There's always going to be back door dealings. That's just how it works.

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59 minutes ago, ModMan18 said:

Chris, it isn't a mystery person. It's you.myself and millions of other people in New York. But, if you must know (and I don't know why I should have to do your research for you), it is Oswego County Industrial Development Agency. I can tell you, the money they give/grant/loan to businesses all come from the state and federal governments. And those funds all are supposed to go to create permanent jobs, not help failing/dying racetracks. Oswego Speedway has not been "up to par" in years. Why do you think all the owners for the past three decades have failed to repair the backstretch bleachers? The NYS Comptroller is auditing and bringing to task most county IDAs regularly for handing out money to "white elephants" and not creating jobs.And they got spanked for it last year.

http://www.osc.state.ny.us/press/releases/apr15/042815.htm

I wasn't asking you to do the research for me, I was just asking that you share what you had already found out.

It does not surprise me that there is taxpayer money behind this event.  Hell, it has a very large economic impact on whatever city hosts it.  If they spend $1.1M to guarantee the event goes off, but it generates $2M for the city, isn't that a win?  And if you split up that $1.1M dollars among the NYS tax base...aren't we talking about pennies per person?  That doesn't phase me.  I'd gladly pay a tiny stipend to see a major motorsports event take place in this state.

You ask why the grandstands haven't been repaired...easy - they haven't been needed.  Oswego gets far smaller crowds than they used to back in the heyday of Supermodified racing.  And the reasons for that are the same reasons that everyone hypothesizes about every other track around here - too many entertainment options, dwindling interest in the sport, economy, cost to compete, etc... In my eyes, the cost to compete is clearly the biggest driver.  A top shelf Supermodified goes about $100K now, and the speed they are running makes it very hard to pass given equal equipment.  Hence, the Super count has gone from 30ish to mid 20's to low 20's to high teens now.  No sense showing up if your car isn't up to $nuff or you know you are starting 15th with a dozen Hawk cars in front of you.  Fewer cars = fewer fans = the back stands closed 95% of the time.

The above paragraph (as it pertains to most other classes, but especially big block Modifieds) has been my underlying thought process for almost all the posts I have on here.  You can't keep letting the cost to compete get higher and higher when you realistically have very few options in terms of upping the purse.  THIS IS WHY CRATE SPORTSMAN ARE SO POPULAR. Guys and girls will race what they can afford to race, i have said that for years.  A $3500 engine may sound like shit compared to a big block, and the speeds may be marginally slower, but the competition is great and people can afford to do it.  Even if they lose money at the pay window because they only get $50 to start... at least they don't have $40K wrapped up in an engine that will never pay for itself.

Sorry this turned into a rant, and sorry for my tone in my initial response...I was just curious who the secret owner was. Guess it was no secret after all....

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Speedway 21, you are quite the dreamer. WRG might have one or two full-time employees in NYS. The local and state governments in NYS don't know what the next one is doing. Like giving someone money twice to do the same job/project. That is the case here. The improvements (except the clay being put down) that the 1 million dollar plus is paying for now, were funded way back in 2011, by an Oswego County IDA resolution. That's five years ago. So apparently nothing got done. Close as I can figure too is, Circle T Motorsports LLC (property owner), leases Oswego Speedway to Circle T Amusements LLC (track operator). Both with the same address in Florida. When the day arrives, and the property gets sold (and after the Carusos sold it, it has changed hands a couple times), where does that money go? I just don't believe it is fair to give taxpayer money to someone who can't show any benefit short term or long term (especially from an out of state company). Like I said earlier Oswego Speedway is not what it once was. Putting clay on it for one week isn't going to help the local or state economy.

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Wait, people in this thread are actually claiming that DIRT Week draws 70,000 fans? :o The grandstands seated 15K and were half-empty for years (some years, more than half empty). What did DIRT Week draw back in the days when there wasn't a seat to be had in the grandstands, 500,000? 12 million?

I am a not a hater. I attended 30 of the last 31 DIRT Weeks at the Mile, but come on.

How was Donnelly's track going to fit those "70,000 fans" into a speedway that was supposed to seat somewhere between 5-10,000, depending on what day of the week the story was being told. For that matter, how is Oswego going to fit those "70,000 fans" this year?

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And OBTW, once I started looking around the Oswego County IDA information, Glenn has been at that watering hole too. It never ends.

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FFTR, Sometimes I think that some of these inflated numbers that are given includes the days when they ran more than just SDW at the mile. The State Fair race at one time drew a pretty good crowd. I always went to the State Fair on Labor Day and attended this race (haven't been there since that race disappeared) . It was nice sitting with people that had never seen a race before (great conversations ensued). I always felt this race helped bring new fans to the local tracks around the Northeast (you had thousands of people watching this race just because they happen to be at the State Fair).

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8 hours ago, ModMan18 said:

The dollars cleared as profit from having Super Dirt Week at Oswego will not even stay in New York. World Racing Group (Super Dirt Week owners) are based in Charlotte, North Carolina. And Circle T Mototsports LLC, owners of Oswego Speedway (partial ownership I may add) are based in Homestead, Florida. I wonder if Cuomos' office even did any research to verify that the New York taxpayers money would benefit any companies/corporations in New York? I don't think so.The other tidbit that I found interesting is the other partial owner of Oswego Speedway. Property tax/ownership information is available to the public. You can go to the county website and get that information. I was floored to see who co-owns Oswego Speedway with Circle T Motorsports LLC. All I will say is "show me the governments' money" (Glenn is not the only one). And it would appear there were some "political backdoor deals" to have Super Dirt Week in Oswego.  JMO

Thats what I said earlier. Pockets are being lined by certain people who have certain relationships with other certain people behind the scenes. Thats all I will say. Read between the lines people. Does it really make sense to have this event at Oswego?

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56 minutes ago, FightForTheRail said:

Wait, people in this thread are actually claiming that DIRT Week draws 70,000 fans? :o The grandstands seated 15K and were half-empty for years (some years, more than half empty). What did DIRT Week draw back in the days when there wasn't a seat to be had in the grandstands, 500,000? 12 million?

I am a not a hater. I attended 30 of the last 31 DIRT Weeks at the Mile, but come on.

How was Donnelly's track going to fit those "70,000 fans" into a speedway that was supposed to seat somewhere between 5-10,000, depending on what day of the week the story was being told. For that matter, how is Oswego going to fit those "70,000 fans" this year?

I can understand inflating the number in a press release to justify the spending, but keep the number believable.  I mean, the most attended dirt race of them all was this past Wednesday, and that race attracts roughly 35k. SDW supposedly gets double that? Lol. 

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3 hours ago, leroy said:

I completely agree with you. These are all things I thought the community could benefit from with the CNYRP project.  And for several events a season. Not just DIRTweek. 

I'm trying to figure though, how could NYS come up with this money for Oswego? But couldn't come up with the money promised to CNYRP?

Well, for $1 million, there is actually going to be a race being presented at Oswego . For the $15 million Donnelly claims to have spent, he had nothing - no grandstands or even a track. The state could have flushed money down a toilet or thrown it in a black hole that does not even have a racetrack or grandstands. At least Oswego is actually going to have a race. What part of the progress at CNYRP would make someone feel confident about the prospect of DIRT Week coming off there this year?

Cuomo said in his statement about moving the race to Oswego that there was not adequate progress made at CNYRP.

"We don't just give away state money. There have to be reserves. There has to be security for the money," the Governor said when asked about Donnelly's plans. "All I know is it didn't work out with that operator."

http://www.localsyr.com/news/cuomo-super-dirt-week-will-be-held-at-oswego-speedway

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Not to get sidetracked but Chris brought up allot of excellent points regarding the racing at Oswego. One thing that amazes me about that track is that there is no beginner class. Just the Limited's and the supers. Why not offer a third division of 4cyls, crate sportsman or heck even an IMCA modified style car? Unless they looking to the go-kart track as their feeder class but I feel you have to have something on the big track where people can begin and then move up.

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Well there could of been a whole lot more progress made, had the money promised not been held up this long.  CNYRP isn't something planned on being used just for one big event a year .  At Oswego they are putting the dirt down and pulling it back off.  So is the state going to pony up 1 million every year to do this?

putting dirt down and pulling it back off seems more like a black hole to me than spending money  on something permanent that will be there for years. And have multi uses.   Jmo

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I'm sure the 70,000 is referring to number of people attending Syracuse each day of the week even though it's counting many of the same people twice, it doesn't matter cause no matter who it is they are buying food or drink or gasoline or whatever. And also includes people at satellite shows since they are also considered part of SDW. The number is probably fairly accurate.

Edited by macho
Forgot a word

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I look at it like this. Tax dollars are gonna get pissed away on something anyway, more than likely something I could care less about, so if it's for a race track and not a shopping mall or strip. Have at it. Everyone that's bitching about it, how often does your tax dollars go to help any track? I don't like the increased price, but if I decide to go I'll pay it. Or stay home. 

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2 minutes ago, dan dan said:

I look at it like this. Tax dollars are gonna get pissed away on something anyway, more than likely something I could care less about, so if it's for a race track and not a shopping mall or strip. Have at it. Everyone that's bitching about it, how often does your tax dollars go to help any track? I don't like the increased price, but if I decide to go I'll pay it. Or stay home. 

Exactly.  Been saying this a along. The state could just build a better equestrian arena.  

Race fans being mad about the state helping out race tracks?  Nuts

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From what I can surmise (a guess) from all the information given is this. If Glenn had of been ready at CNYRP, WRG would have been there rent free for a set amount of years with SDW. Glenn was all of a sudden told he had to, "bring us some receipts, we will give you some more money". That amount was quite substantial compared to the money (1.1 million) given to Oswego Speedway (remember WRG didn't get a penny of the 1.1 million). I further surmise (a guess) that WRG and Oswego Speedway had a deal worked out that stated the following; WRG designate Oswego Speedway to host SDW for 2016. In exchange Oswego Speedway receives the 1.1 million dollars for upgrades to the property, and WRG uses the facility rent free. It is a win-win for both as WRG would not have paid 1.1 million to lease the property for SDW, and Oswego Speedway has the 1.1 million for upgrades that the place desperately needed (minus the clay acquisition and handling). I am sure that Circle T Amusements LLC will operate the concessions during SDW (and maybe some other income not taken in by WRG). I can tell you that there was other SDW scenarios given to WRG, however, they would have cost them (as a lease), and wouldn't have been free.

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44 minutes ago, macho said:

I'm sure the 70,000 is referring to number of people attending Syracuse each day of the week even though it's counting many of the same people twice, it doesn't matter cause no matter who it is they are buying food or drink or gasoline or whatever. And also includes people at satellite shows since they are also considered part of SDW. The number is probably fairly accurate.

It's completely disingenuous to count the same fans three, four, five times to come up with some up with some phony, bullshit number. It is just silly to claim there are 70,000 fans at DIRT Week when the race is going to be at a track that seats 10,000.

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