timdurland

CRATE SPORTSMAN

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Crate Sportsman have become a popular division at many different tracks.Some tracks run multiple Sportsman divisions which utilize crate and/or open motors.I have seen many different combinations across the State.I noticed that OCFS is switching to strictly crate motors for 2013 and will be running 2 separate crate sportsman divisions.One for rookie drivers only and another for those with experience.I think it is a good way for tracks to get extra cars.My question is this:Is there any reason why a 4 barrel carburator should not be used with these motors?With multiple crate classes at tracks such as OCFS could the rookie class run 2 barrel carbs and the advanced class run 4 barrel carbs?Would it be a bad thing if they ALL ran 4 barrel carbs to add speed and excitement and would it make the racing better or worse?Just something I was thinking about.

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It would just be another added expense for a racer who probebly already has limited funds. So, let me ask you this. If OCFS makes a rule win 4 times and your forced to move up... Where is that racer going to find the cash for a 4 barrel carb? Not to mention now that racer has a semi useless 2 barrel, unless they can sell it. I can not imagine how much power a 2 barrel would rob from that already limited motor.

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Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly positive the 602 crate has to run a Holley 600 CFM carb
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Maybe its the open motors that run the smaller 2 barrel carb and the crates that run the 600 mentioned above?I am not familiar with crate motors.I have only been around Mods, Sprints and Open Sportsman.

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All crates run a 4 barrel carb. 95% of the time its a 650

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[quote name='banana cognac' timestamp='1356475998' post='414489']
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly positive the 602 crate has to run a Holley 600 CFM carb
[/quote]650 carb for the crates
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Tim McCreadie once said that the problem with crate sportsman classes is they don't learn throttle control. I'm guessing because the slower speeds they are usually just held open, plus they have a restrictor chip. I can see this as a problem at tracks like Rolling Wheels, OCFS, Canadaigua, and the Valley. If this is the case then I would think it would be better to learn to race at tracks like Glen Ridge, Accord, Afton, and similar smaller tracks where you don't run wide open and have to learn to race in the pack and be on and off the throttle a lot.

To have two classes of the same car at OCFS just doesn't make any sense.. It's a stupid as when they has rook, novice, and pro street stock classes. Make more sense to have a the Rookie class crate, and the advance class open.
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Unless you have 20 cars of rookies to make a full field every the very idea of these rookie classes is dumb to me. It's another way we have "everyone gets a trophy day".
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The " Rookie " class is a good idea. Fulton and Glen Ridge have been doing it for the last few years with Fonda trying it last season. It gives the new driver a chance to get the car under he or she and it gives that young son or daughter a chance for there Father to live out his fantasy as his kid is the Next Jeff Gordon.

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[quote name='luke81' timestamp='1356533561' post='414517']
Unless you have 20 cars of rookies to make a full field every the very idea of these rookie classes is dumb to me. It's another way we have "everyone gets a trophy day".
[/quote]ITS CALLED TRACK TIME
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Track time is great, give them extra practice days. Give them an extra 1/2 hour of hot laps before or after the show. And like i said, if you've got a full class of them then so be it. But as both a fan and as a racer one of the things I hate most at the track is the program dragging out, and running classes of a few cars isn't in the best interest of putting on a good show (in my own opinion).
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The way Flemington used to do the rookie class always worked well. They ran half the season on their own, then were added to the regular sportsman class. If a driver won three features in the class during the first part of the season, they were moved up.
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Used to be you started in an entry level class and moved up, or you learned the ropes with the big boys and how to drive with respect. Racing with a bunch of other kids isnt going to teach these rookie drivers everything it takes to run a racecar. Probably more bad habits than good. Sportsman cars are one step from Modified and about 20 steps from entry level.

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Newsflash... sportsman was supposed to be an entry level class. It isn't.
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Wasnt Sportsman originally designed to be the next step after Street Stock? Street Stock engine in an old Modified chassis...

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As Glen saw it, it was a way for guys who wanted to get into modified racing a chance to do that. The idea was used chassis, used tires, and low budget engines. It was suppose to be an entry level class to get more people to move up into Modified racing. When Stu Sheppard and Steve Schultz first started in the sportsman ranks it was exactly that. They used old chassis on used tired and used parts. And they put on a hell of a show. Stu and Steve would later move up to the modified ranks. Others like Jim Spano went out and bought the best of everything, new car, new tires, $10K + engine, and their enclosed hauler (though none of it seemed to do him a bit of good at the time.) But others with skill started doing the same thing. Glen should of clamped down on the Sportsman division long before it got out of hand. Now they spend $50K+ on their sportsman cars and want feature pay out money for it. Sportsman were always meant to be and suppose to be an entry support division. And when they guys started in them they knew they wasnt going to be any money to be made. It was suppose to be for the thrill of racing and experience before moving up. Now they create another sportsman class to be the same thing. It's just ridiculous.. THERE ARE TO MANY CLASSES!!!. My brother started jumped right into the Modified class from antique cars with the original NYSCC. He was winning races with in 3 years at 5 Mile and consistently finishing in the top 10 at Rolling Wheels. His first 1 and half years there were quite a few drivers upset with him as he was in the way many times. Many of nights starting on the front row and running to the back with in just a few laps. But by the 2nd half of his 2nd season he was staying up front, then moving up front. Because he got more and more experience, he had help from other drivers like Don Slack and Charlie Castle. Thats how you get experience, by running with the big boys. Sure they will hate you for a while as you're pretty much no better then a road block. But if your meant to race you'll slowly get better and instead of being a car in the way, you'll be a contender. They need LESS modified classes. Let Sportsman stay the entry class, if guys want to stay there let them. But don't raise purses for them. They want more money let them move up or stop spending so much and stay where they are. Very very few guys make a leaving on racing, find a class you can afford and just enjoy it. But enough with creating more and more classes.

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That is exactly what it was supposed to be. Chassis had to be a minimum 2-3 years old. Engines were from street stocks. As usual, rules weren't enforced and it became a mess. Proving racers to be their own worst enemies, and the rule book is only selectively enforced.
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Guys
What is the problem with Sportsman having enclosed trailers? Just because they are not Mod or 358 teams, I guess we can stand out in the rain. We have an enclosed trailer for the convience of protecting our car and equipment. I do not believe that the class is an entry level class. I believe it is a class for teams to be able to race weekly with out the outlay of money that is required to run a Mod or 358. We race the Sportsman class because it allows us to race every week. If anyone on DTD knows someone to provide us with the cars and motors and all the other required equipment to run Mods or 358s, send me a pm and I'll be glad to talk to you.
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I dont think the issue with some sportsman teams is the fact that they race sportsman because they want to race every week and cant afford a modified.

The issue (as I personally see it) is with the teams that are obviously swimming in cash and have no business running sportsman when htey could very easilly move up, but dont.

But I'm usually ignorant of a lot of things.
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Dennis, hate to say it but new cars and engines were being brought into the class long before Spano. In fact it was only a few years into the divisions exsistance that the first new car showed up.

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a brand new chassis and crate engine is still MUCH cheaper than a new BB. the sad thing it, is doesn't have to be that expensive.

Crates are also a bit easier on tires than BB.

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[quote name='Casper60' timestamp='1356569168' post='414554']
Dennis, hate to say it but new cars and engines were being brought into the class long before Spano. In fact it was only a few years into the divisions exsistance that the first new car showed up.
[/quote]

Spamp entered the Sportsman division only a few years after it's existence There were a few guys that had money and new cars right from the start, but they still got beat by better drivers like Stu and Steve who would getting their parts from the Modified drivers... somewhere I have an old 87 review VHS tape that has a interview with either stu or steve.... I'm working on my new video setup to copy my tapes to digital. Hopefully I didn't lose it.... It's not bad now to have a enclosed hauler hell, pure stock guys have them. But back then there were some good modified teams that couldn't even afford an enclosed hauler. They were very expensive and only a few teams had them. If a sportsman guy had the money to spend on a hauler he definitely had money to spend on a big block.. I use Spano as an example because he was always one of the biggest spenders. Though talent wise he really never was (when I watched him race) anyone you really had to worry about.. all money no talent. Watching guys like Stu and Steve move up to the Big Block ranks from running basically junk was impressive. They learned how to work with less and how to have to adjust the car when you couldn't just buy tires or a new part. I see so many guys now go from Sportsman up to Big Blocks and they never progress. I think they learn to many bad habits, and don't learn how to work on a car. There are some great Sportsman and Crate Sportsman teams out there, if they could afford to run Big Blocks they would be contenders. Then there are some guys who spend a fortune to cheat in sportsman and run up front who try to move up to modifieds and can't get out of their own way.
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[quote name='THKinsella' timestamp='1356385646' post='414449']
It would just be another added expense for a racer who probebly already has limited funds. So, let me ask you this. If OCFS makes a rule win 4 times and your forced to move up... Where is that racer going to find the cash for a 4 barrel carb? Not to mention now that racer has a semi useless 2 barrel, unless they can sell it. I can not imagine how much power a 2 barrel would rob from that already limited motor.
[/quote]

it's around 25 HP (2bbl to 4 bbl) The Sportsman at Granby and Drummond ran the 2BBL for a while, I dont think the people in the stands would notice it....

From a racer's standpoint, I can see the use of a "rookie Class", but from the stands, it just creates another "modified" class....They all look the same to the average fan....just some classes have slower cars. I still think, at a minimum, the Mods and sportsman should have something visually different about them,,,I think mods should have sail panels, and sportman the current "traditional"" side windows. Maybe that's why I stuck with the Prostock for so long.... we might not have been any faster, but at least we looked different.
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I think the reason most guys don't move up is they want the CHANCE to win at each races. JMO There's a Big difference between buying a Big Block and winning with one again JMO
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This is a great topic. There was one statement that I have to disagree with though. Someone said that the sportsman is one step below a modified, I couldnt disagree more. MAYBE back in the open sportsman days, but not now. If someone were to jump into even a halfway stout 358 after only running a crate car and tried to drive it the same way as the crate they would make it onto the crash tape in short order. I am not the huge proponet of the crate that I once was, but still see a need for them. But they are not a good stepping stone into a mod.

DC
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