Jump to content



Recommended Posts


My guess is that Matty D. spent $100, 000 to $150.000. at Fonda, not counting the new surface.  Many promoters are always  crying about losing money or only making a little.  If you tell the fans that you are doing great, they start thinking that why am I paying $12.00 to get in and believe that they are being over charged. Also remember that a race track is a cash business. When Fonda came for lease there were more than one party interested, so that tells me something.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am thinking Howie and the Richards family are doing or did just fine, but not everyone has what they have or had, as far as location and fan/car counts.  

 

Seems like it might be more difficult now, but they had to start at the beginning at some point and so does everyone else. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Racing is a lot like prostitution. The track owners and promoters are the mob, the sanctioning body and speed supply dudes are the pimps, the car owners and drivers are the ladys of the night. And the fan is the john.

 

I agree with the exception of switching the sanctioning body and the owner/promoters. Sanctioning body just sits on top, making a few rules and skimming off the top with out investing any of their own $$.

 

 

I don't think it's hard to see what track does well and what one doesn't. If you go to a track and the stands are full, that generally means there is a good pile of cars in the pits too. You aren't going to pack the stands to watch dwindling fields of cars.

 

I would guess pay outs for each class are similar enough to kinda cancel out when comparing track to track. I know some pay more per class, some pay less but at the end of the year is it a giant difference on profit? There will always be an exception one way of the other but on average most tracks pay similar. 

 

If that all holds true, then the owners/promoters that pack the stands but have roughly the same pay outs have to be profiting. If they claim they aren't, I have a hard time believing them.

 

If Can/am was to pack the stands weekly but only have to pay out for a top class of Sportsman/ Crate Lates ($400-$500 for a win, guessing??) then I would have to assume there is a lot more cash in his pocket than a track like Fulton where he has to pay Sportman/Crate LM's as well at the Big Blocks. (Assuming the same amount of people in the stands).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My guess is that Matty D. spent $100, 000 to $150.000. at Fonda, not counting the new surface.  Many promoters are always  crying about losing money or only making a little.  If you tell the fans that you are doing great, they start thinking that why am I paying $12.00 to get in and believe that they are being over charged. Also remember that a race track is a cash business. When Fonda came for lease there were more than one party interested, so that tells me something.  

 

My guess is BBL Companies spends the money.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In major league racing (NASCAR) is on top. But at the short track level, I feel (and I may be wrong?) the track owner/promoter is the power. They switch rules, tire manufacturers, sanctioning bodys all the time

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But its all still money there spending

 

My guess is that Matty D. spent $100, 000 to $150.000. at Fonda, not counting the new surface.  Many promoters are always  crying about losing money or only making a little.  If you tell the fans that you are doing great, they start thinking that why am I paying $12.00 to get in and believe that they are being over charged. Also remember that a race track is a cash business. When Fonda came for lease there were more than one party interested, so that tells me something.  

 

My guess is BBL Companies spends the money.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Geez, if Matt D put a million into Fonda this year he could have bought Merrittville ror 750k and that place is full of cars and fans every Saturday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am thinking Howie and the Richards family are doing or did just fine, but not everyone has what they have or had, as far as location and fan/car counts.  

 

 

Howie has an advantage that Lebanon is paid in full, no mortgage, lease payments, etc.  Many tracks do not have that same luxury. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In major league racing (NASCAR) is on top. But at the short track level, I feel (and I may be wrong?) the track owner/promoter is the power. They switch rules, tire manufacturers, sanctioning bodys all the time

I would seem that way. But I ask myself all the time, why do tracks even need to be sanctioned?
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sanctioning comes with perks as well... I dont know about now but didnt dirt offer insurance as a group plan for all the tracks? Sanctioning also helps bring you cars, and the big races... no Dirt, no WoO Late Models OR Sprints.. no Super Dirt Races...  besides the common rules...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sanctioning comes with perks as well... I dont know about now but didnt dirt offer insurance as a group plan for all the tracks? Sanctioning also helps bring you cars, and the big races... no Dirt, no WoO Late Models OR Sprints.. no Super Dirt Races... besides the common rules...

no true . Lots of independent tracks get WoO shows. Sanctioning bodies make up and change the rules as they go along. which is kind of the same as having no rules to begin with.
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I am thinking Howie and the Richards family are doing or did just fine, but not everyone has what they have or had, as far as location and fan/car counts.  

 

 

Howie has an advantage that Lebanon is paid in full, no mortgage, lease payments, etc.  Many tracks do not have that same luxury. 

 

 

Agreed, kind of like renting versus buying a home.  As for Howie and others like that, it wasn't paid off when he originally bought it and started many years ago, and he had to make it work so he could make the payments and get to the point he is at now.  I applaud him and and anyone who has and can do that.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Sanctioning comes with perks as well... I dont know about now but didnt dirt offer insurance as a group plan for all the tracks? Sanctioning also helps bring you cars, and the big races... no Dirt, no WoO Late Models OR Sprints.. no Super Dirt Races... besides the common rules...

no true . Lots of independent tracks get WoO shows. Sanctioning bodies make up and change the rules as they go along. which is kind of the same as having no rules to begin with.

 

Not 100% sure of this but I don't believe Brighton Speedway is Dirt sanctioned (doesn't show up on DIRT's listing of tracks on their site) but there is a 2 day race in the fall of each year.

Sportsman Friday night and 358's on Saturday.

I believe location helps out a lot because it's sort of a mid point as far as travel goes with the eastern cars vs the western cars.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Someone paid 1.75 million(?) for Waterford.  I'm assuming he/she wants to sell it one day cause they ain't getting that back.

 

 

According to Rocky Arbitel (businessman/creditor that brought the foreclosure action) on Speedway Line Report this past Monday night, Waterford should be capable of $200k profit annually. Don't forget, that track has something going on four nights a week.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wasn't LV originally owned by Howie's father. If that's the case, it's probably been paid for many years ago.  I remember hearing before  LV was a racetrack, there was a small airport on the property ?  I do like his ideas of keeping the prices low to get more fans and cars and making it up in more concession sales, ect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I AM SURE MOST PROMOTERS ARE IN IT BECAUSE THEY LOVE RACING AND ARE HOPING TO MAKE MONEY WHILE THEY ARE DOING IT.WOOPS! THAT SOUNDS LIKE THE SAME THING DRIVERS AND OWNERS WANT.WITH THAT BEING SAID MAYBE IT IS TIME FOR RACERS AND DIE HARD FANS ORGANIZE AND START THEIR OWN PUBLIC CORP OPERATE A TRACK AND MAKE A PROFIT AND EVERYBODY WILL WIN.WHOS IN?LOL

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wasn't LV originally owned by Howie's father. If that's the case, it's probably been paid for many years ago.  I remember hearing before  LV was a racetrack, there was a small airport on the property ?  I do like his ideas of keeping the prices low to get more fans and cars and making it up in more concession sales, ect.

 

I thought I heard his uncle owned the track before Howie, whatever, I'm sure it has been free and clear for a long time. Maybe the uncles name was Lou???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is an excellent idea. That would give all the promoters a chance to see how the keyboard cowboys and sh!t house lawyers would run a business. My guess at your business model 2000 bosses, 100 racers and a fight every night because no one is getting paid.

Everyone keeps comparing racing to yesteryears models---times have changed--demographics have changed-- technology now uses up our future fans time-- technology to the point of young girls selling pictures of themselves in schools-- technology to use an FM signal to broadcast a race while fans sit in their cars in  parking lots and never pay for admissions--- technology to get scoring on your smart phone- a fan can pretty much figure out the race without being there-- so in the end who are we all really racing for --just look in the mirror.

A whole new approach has to be made at attracting fans and sponsors to our sport. When NASCAR struggles to fill seats it's bad. Some of the best promoters in the country gather every year and exchange ideas and still come up with the same answer, there is no magic bullet, its hard work and a goal. Promoters tend to be goal oreianted, fans and racers tend to look for instant gratification. A promoter looks at the season knowing there will be winners and losers while fans and racers expect a perfect track, perfect food, perfect bathrooms, perfect weather, perfect race calls and lets not forget a one hour show and to be paid more than anyone else.

New promoters with money to invest are hard to find- Mike Sowle and Matt Delorenzo have made considerable investments this past year and they still get their balls broke by all the so called "experts". All I have to say to the experts is put your money up. 

Still not scared to sign my name Pete D.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not 100% sure of this but I don't believe Brighton Speedway is Dirt sanctioned (doesn't show up on DIRT's listing of tracks on their site) but there is a 2 day race in the fall of each year. Sportsman Friday night and 358's on Saturday.  I believe location helps out a lot because it's sort of a mid point as far as travel goes with the eastern cars vs the western cars.

 

 

Actually Brighton is on the list of sanctioned tracks posted in the Dirtcar Rules Bulletin...  but no, not all tracks that hold SDS events are Dirtcar sanctioned.  Most of them are and we have seen events taken away from tracks who choose to compete weekly with sanctioned tracks.  Brighton is in a good location to draw from east and west among Canadian drivers but it is in a terrible spot for US drivers to get to.  The fact that their event is also after the regular season ends helps them out.

once again it becomes apparent why Dirtcar uses the "home track bonus points" as part of the formula for the SDS championship.  it is to guarantee they get drivers running their tracks weekly and buying memberships, which I am totally fine with.  They do pay out money for series champs as well as top local track performers at the end of the year.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DIRTcar uses home track bonus points because long ago Glenn realized that weekly Modified racing is the foundation of the sport.  Without a solid foundation, the whole thing falls apart. Look at how weak all 5 asphalt mod tours (WMT, WSMT, RoC, MRS, KOMA) are with weekly asphalt modified racing all but gone (only Bowman Gray, Riverhead, Mahoning Valley, and Star ran mods weekly this year. Rumor is they won't be back at Star next year, but hopefully Evergreen will be back in action). 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is an excellent idea. That would give all the promoters a chance to see how the keyboard cowboys and sh!t house lawyers would run a business. My guess at your business model 2000 bosses, 100 racers and a fight every night because no one is getting paid.
Everyone keeps comparing racing to yesteryears models---times have changed--demographics have changed-- technology now uses up our future fans time-- technology to the point of young girls selling pictures of themselves in schools-- technology to use an FM signal to broadcast a race while fans sit in their cars in parking lots and never pay for admissions--- technology to get scoring on your smart phone- a fan can pretty much figure out the race without being there-- so in the end who are we all really racing for --just look in the mirror.
A whole new approach has to be made at attracting fans and sponsors to our sport. When NASCAR struggles to fill seats it's bad. Some of the best promoters in the country gather every year and exchange ideas and still come up with the same answer, there is no magic bullet, its hard work and a goal. Promoters tend to be goal oreianted, fans and racers tend to look for instant gratification. A promoter looks at the season knowing there will be winners and losers while fans and racers expect a perfect track, perfect food, perfect bathrooms, perfect weather, perfect race calls and lets not forget a one hour show and to be paid more than anyone else.
New promoters with money to invest are hard to find- Mike Sowle and Matt Delorenzo have made considerable investments this past year and they still get their balls broke by all the so called "experts". All I have to say to the experts is put your money up.
Still not scared to sign my name Pete D.



Pete
You're right. No promoter is perfect. That being said not everyone on here is an armchair promoter. Some of us have been there and some of the guys on here are trying to provide constructive criticism. I think the grain of a good promoter starts when they figure out they don't know it all and they take in info from many different people and make an educated decision based on that. The #1 job of a promoter is customer service. Let's face it if the customers not happy they go elsewhere. We have seen that it's not the money that draws people to the track. I hope that during the winter many things are figured out and discussed intelligently on how to make things better and to draw more racers. It starts with how people are treated at the drivers meeting and that the racers feel they're given a fair shake. I think you shouldn't take everything on here as bashing. A lot of guys have some good ideas you just have to sift thru the bs to get to them. Longtime promoters like Howie and others didn't get where they are from NOT listening. Just my 2 cents.
  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding Brighton - Their late model class is DirtCar sanctioned.  The pro car division follows the UMP crate late model rules.

 

I personally would not want to be a track promoter...But I have certainly learned to appreciate the good ones!  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I am thinking Howie and the Richards family are doing or did just fine, but not everyone has what they have or had, as far as location and fan/car counts.  

 

 

Howie has an advantage that Lebanon is paid in full, no mortgage, lease payments, etc.  Many tracks do not have that same luxury. 

 

And I would bet that his property taxes are much less than the $160,000 Gurda pays for OCFS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
















×