Jump to content



Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, LABDOG said:

It's starting to get like baseball, just watch it on the news to see the heat wins and the the race for the win. Busch and Harvick have dominated this season but no guarantee that each will win the title.   Also, it would be better if new cars were introduced at the same time.  This year Chevy is learning the Camaro and next year Ford will be learning the Mustang so I wouldn't expect too much from those teams.  Also, too many favorite drivers have retired (Gordon, Stewart, Jr. Edwards, Kenseth, Biffle), their time was up and for their fans the present would be a good time to disconnect.  Personally, I was a Carl Edwards fan and when that guaranteed caution came out at Homestead I knew that it was all over because he is weak on restarts.  I've sort of lost interest since then and will turn on the TV if I'm around. Not always the best driver in the car either, it's more about money and sponsors.  Elliot and Byron not marquee status. At least Elliot should be by now.  Overall, racing is going to be a losing battle because fans don't care about cars anymore.

Busch and harvick have dominated...so far. We see it every season, a different team dominates during different parts of the long season. The drivers are lacking some personality, however one of the best things nascar has going for them now is Wallace and blaney.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’d like see them run less Saturday nights and run weeknights in primetime instead. I’d like to see them run the all star race Thursday or Wednesday heading into Memorial Day weekend 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brian France is the poster child of the third generation of a business running it into the ground.

They took a product that wasn't broken and totally alienated their core group of diehard fans.

Through countless gimmicks and rules, they tried to cater to a new audience, now that audience is gone too.

Now most races are little more than watching an Amtrak train going by with no passing. It comes down to pit strategy and who has the least pit road penalties.

It's truly amazing how NA$CAR screwed up something as simple as cars going around in circles.

 

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dundeedm said:

This right here is the biggest problem in Oval Racing period.

 

1 hour ago, dundeedm said:
1 hour ago, smokefan said:

Kids today aren't into hot rods like the older generation was. Their idea of a hot rod is a suped up vw,  Subaru or Honda.

This right here is the biggest problem in Oval Racing period.

Do you want kids to buy a $70k Chevelle? And FWIW, some of these kids are building 800 whp Evo’s, WRX’s, etc. it may not be your kind of car but these cars are seriously high tech and crazy fast. It’s easy to point at kids but these cars are their muscle cars and they’re way faster than what we had as kids. My 13 second mustang from my youth is dog crap compared to these boosted 4 bangers..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Sicklajoie said:

Brian France is the poster child of the third generation of a business running it into the ground.

They took a product that wasn't broken and totally alienated their core group of diehard fans.

Through countless gimmicks and rules, they tried to cater to a new audience, now that audience is gone too.

Now most races are little more than watching an Amtrak train going by with no passing. It comes down to pit strategy and who has the least pit road penalties.

It's truly amazing how NA$CAR screwed up something as simple as cars going around in circles.

 

The first generation earns it, the second inherits it, and the third spends it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, JPPatterson said:

My 13 second mustang from my youth is dog crap compared to these boosted 4 bangers..

My 1985 Buick Regal was a 231ci V-6, but it looked exactly like what was racing on Sundays. And it didn't go 200mph either, but this one did...

bobby-allison-miller.jpg

NASCAR is severely missing the boat. The current version of the Mustang could be (and SHOULD be) pitted head to head with the Camaro and the Challenger. Those cars are available to kids today - no different than the Monte Carlo's, Regals and Cutlasses of the mid '80s just before NASCAR reached its pinnacle. Seems to me like the NASCAR brass and the American Auto Manufacturers aren't as tight as they used to be. Toyota would have to develop a mid size car to compete with.

This nonsense of all the manufacturers having to use the same body template is a big part of the reason the sport is failing. There should be 5 measurements... nose height, roof height, rear deck height, total width and minimum ground clearance. Now take the spoilers, splitters, valances and wickerbills off and get the manufacturer rivalry involved again.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BobMiller said:

My 1985 Buick Regal was a 231ci V-6, but it looked exactly like what was racing on Sundays. And it didn't go 200mph either, but this one did...

bobby-allison-miller.jpg

NASCAR is severely missing the boat. The current version of the Mustang could be (and SHOULD be) pitted head to head with the Camaro and the Challenger. Those cars are available to kids today - no different than the Monte Carlo's, Regals and Cutlasses of the mid '80s just before NASCAR reached its pinnacle. Seems to me like the NASCAR brass and the American Auto Manufacturers aren't as tight as they used to be. Toyota would have to develop a mid size car to compete with.

This nonsense of all the manufacturers having to use the same body template is a big part of the reason the sport is failing. There should be 5 measurements... nose height, roof height, rear deck height, total width and minimum ground clearance. Now take the spoilers, splitters, valances and wickerbills off and get the manufacturer rivalry involved again.

Pretty sure this whole thing comes back to NASCAR thinking faster was better.

Aero advantage didn't play as big a role on short bull rings where your fenders were pushed in by lap 60.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, dundeedm said:

This right here is the biggest problem in Oval Racing period.

Kids into souped up VW's, Hondas and Toyotas is not the biggest problem. Outdated way of thinking thats behind the times. Thats the entry way into racing. Take a look at some of the 4cyl racing being done nationwide. These cars are full blown racecars. Brewerton and Skyline run full blown racecars. The class is growing and more and more adults and kids are getting involved. 4cyls are the gateway. Not this twisted northeast racing model where everyone now starts in a 602 sportsman. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, JPPatterson said:

 

Do you want kids to buy a $70k Chevelle? And FWIW, some of these kids are building 800 whp Evo’s, WRX’s, etc. it may not be your kind of car but these cars are seriously high tech and crazy fast. It’s easy to point at kids but these cars are their muscle cars and they’re way faster than what we had as kids. My 13 second mustang from my youth is dog crap compared to these boosted 4 bangers..

Yes I agree with both this and the others.

In my experience, the oval track world is not speaking to the younger people today who are into fast street cars. I know one guy who has a recent model Subaru. With mods and tuned it makes 535 whp,  AWD, 4-door hatch at 3100 lbs, and it’s a daily driver. He takes it to autocross on occasion, but never to a dirt track and he’s not into Nascar. There are a lot of people like this, some are into road racing, drag racing, or quads.

Not only are the body styles hard to relate to, but the engine technology side of things too. Carburetors have been fazed out of new car production lines for 30 years. Most people have never owned a car with a carburetor or a pushrod v-8, so I think it’s hard for a lot of the current car tuner crowd to relate to the way horsepower is being made in much of oval track racing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, JPPatterson said:

 

Do you want kids to buy a $70k Chevelle? And FWIW, some of these kids are building 800 whp Evo’s, WRX’s, etc. it may not be your kind of car but these cars are seriously high tech and crazy fast. It’s easy to point at kids but these cars are their muscle cars and they’re way faster than what we had as kids. My 13 second mustang from my youth is dog crap compared to these boosted 4 bangers..

Relax dude I'm not saying their cars aren't fast. My point was not to knock what they are into, it is that their choice of cars is not part of the NASCAR scene on Sundays

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, JPPatterson said:

 

Do you want kids to buy a $70k Chevelle? And FWIW, some of these kids are building 800 whp Evo’s, WRX’s, etc. it may not be your kind of car but these cars are seriously high tech and crazy fast. It’s easy to point at kids but these cars are their muscle cars and they’re way faster than what we had as kids. My 13 second mustang from my youth is dog crap compared to these boosted 4 bangers..

Put that rice burner engine in a heavier vehicle, you're done! Or do the same upgrades to a V8 that these kids are doing to 4 bangers, you're done!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, jumper12a said:

Put that rice burner engine in a heavier vehicle, you're done! Or do the same upgrades to a V8 that these kids are doing to 4 bangers, you're done!

So you're saying it's the weight of the class that's the issue?.... Makes sense.... They are already making weight rules for different engine combos. 

Same upgrades to a V8 that they do to a 4 cylinder?.... You're comparing a stock to a modified engine...I'm pretty sure there are guys throwing more money at 602's to keep "stock" and getting far less return on their dollar than those dollars on a 4 cylinder...

I get what you're saying but if you are going to attract youth to the track, it helps if they can relate to at least one class.... Once they get the racing bug, they will move up and want to go faster on their own.

As far as stock sports cars on a dirt oval, I'll put my money on a 4 cylinder import before one of the big 3 and their V8's (V10)... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I meant is the kids are in to the Subaru's, Honda's, etc. They like drifting and street racing. The cars are works of art. Some how you need to get these kids in to wanting to build cars for the dirt track. You get them to do that, they'll slowly get hooked in to the modifieds. The money these kids put in to their cars for the street is almost as much as most Sportsman cars if not more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know people hate the spec bodies, but have we forgotten what things were like in the 90s. Chevy wins a race, Ford and Dodge start whining, by Tue NASCAR announces that Chevy has to take 3/16ths off the spoiler, then Ford wins three in a row and Chevy whines and now Chevy gets to add back to the spoiler ... it was every single week this nonsense was going on. And NASCAR did it because it rightly believed that manufacturer involvement helped fans identify with the cars.

I have a few things that would interest *me* more (but I'm not really the target audience).

* Get some more ground clearance on those things and make aero matter less. The trucks seem to have a lot less of this problem -- bigger hole in the air let's guys come up from behind. We need to get back to that.

* You have to make the bodies/cars more durable so they can beat and bang. These days, one slide into the grass, the splitter is ripped off, the body is toast, you're done. You need to get back to the days when guys can beat on each other for 20-30 laps, beating the fenders off the cars. That's what you need.

* Back to the old style tires so you can slip and slide around the track. (I can't remember which is which ... bias ply or radial. Honestly, I kinda lose interest as soon as I see Goodyear on the side instead of Hoosier or American Racer.) 

* I personally would like to see some midweek races. And some variety in the schedule -- go to some cool tracks: Montreal Isle Notre Dame, IRP, Knoxville, Eldora (for Cup), Salem or Winchester IN, that beautiful new short track in California that's on the K&N tour, back to the old Nashville fairgrounds, dare I say it but Oswego! Maybe one of the Illinois dirt miles. Rockingham. 

Get back to the roots of racing and tracks that people can identify with.

* Back to pavement at Bristol. End of discussion.

* The stages are a bandaid for the problem that 500 miles races are too long. But the stages don't really mean anything to the fans. Cut to the chase and have multiple shorter races for each event (three 125 milers, etc.), with redraw for inversion between each race (pills 4, 8, 16, 32) -- baseball has doubleheaders, Indy car used to run twin race events. Just TRY it to see if it works. Separate purse and points for each race. Let drivers bring in replacement cars if they go to the tail.

I would prefer a short-track format -- group qualifying to see line-ups for the heat races, a last chance B-main and then the main event. Cut costs so that you get 60-70 cars competing for starting spots.

* Get rid of live pitstops. Have scheduled pitstops, 2-5 minutes, you go out in the same order you went in. So there is a huge expense cut, you don't need an army for a pit crew. (Also works well for TV commercial breaks.)

That's at the core ...

But really, to me, I have lost touch with NASCAR because you no longer have that hot young talent come in and set the world on fire. No more Mark Martin's, Rusty Wallace's, Rob Moroso's etc coming in from out of nowhere. Now, the guys get groomed through truck and into Xfinnity and then Cup ... it's all so polished and professional and BORING.

Cut costs so that you have an abundance of teams trying to make each race.

Get back to the roots of what made NASCAR great -- talented guys driving the wheels of a car.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Every Toyota on the track is connected to joe Gibbs some way shape or form. Every Chevy is connected to Hendrick some way shape or form. Every Ford is connected to Rosh or Steward/Hass some way shape or form. It’s so boring watching 4 teams race each other. Get rid of the monopoly 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/8/2018 at 9:20 PM, PatsJags14 said:

The drivers are lacking some personality, however one of the best things nascar has going for them now is Wallace and blaney.

Hahaha. I'd love to know your reasoning for that.

Dillon and Wallace haven't done squat since their lucky first and second finishes at Daytona. Maybe Dillon needs another lucky penny.

I do think Blaney is cool. I like the 'glass case of emotion' podcast with him, kim coon, and the other guy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/8/2018 at 2:45 PM, TheKraken said:

Didn't Matt Shepherd miss 30% of his races last year and still ended up as champion? 

He was ineligible to race in 11% of the super dirt series races that were held that were points eligible.

He won 50% of the races that he was allowed to earn points from that awarded points. That's an amazing feat.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, BillSmith said:

I know people hate the spec bodies, but have we forgotten what things were like in the 90s. Chevy wins a race, Ford and Dodge start whining, by Tue NASCAR announces that Chevy has to take 3/16ths off the spoiler, then Ford wins three in a row and Chevy whines and now Chevy gets to add back to the spoiler ... it was every single week this nonsense was going on. And NASCAR did it because it rightly believed that manufacturer involvement helped fans identify with the cars.

I have a few things that would interest *me* more (but I'm not really the target audience).

* Get some more ground clearance on those things and make aero matter less. The trucks seem to have a lot less of this problem -- bigger hole in the air let's guys come up from behind. We need to get back to that.

* You have to make the bodies/cars more durable so they can beat and bang. These days, one slide into the grass, the splitter is ripped off, the body is toast, you're done. You need to get back to the days when guys can beat on each other for 20-30 laps, beating the fenders off the cars. That's what you need.

* Back to the old style tires so you can slip and slide around the track. (I can't remember which is which ... bias ply or radial. Honestly, I kinda lose interest as soon as I see Goodyear on the side instead of Hoosier or American Racer.) 

* I personally would like to see some midweek races. And some variety in the schedule -- go to some cool tracks: Montreal Isle Notre Dame, IRP, Knoxville, Eldora (for Cup), Salem or Winchester IN, that beautiful new short track in California that's on the K&N tour, back to the old Nashville fairgrounds, dare I say it but Oswego! Maybe one of the Illinois dirt miles. Rockingham. 

Get back to the roots of racing and tracks that people can identify with.

* Back to pavement at Bristol. End of discussion.

* The stages are a bandaid for the problem that 500 miles races are too long. But the stages don't really mean anything to the fans. Cut to the chase and have multiple shorter races for each event (three 125 milers, etc.), with redraw for inversion between each race (pills 4, 8, 16, 32) -- baseball has doubleheaders, Indy car used to run twin race events. Just TRY it to see if it works. Separate purse and points for each race. Let drivers bring in replacement cars if they go to the tail.

I would prefer a short-track format -- group qualifying to see line-ups for the heat races, a last chance B-main and then the main event. Cut costs so that you get 60-70 cars competing for starting spots.

* Get rid of live pitstops. Have scheduled pitstops, 2-5 minutes, you go out in the same order you went in. So there is a huge expense cut, you don't need an army for a pit crew. (Also works well for TV commercial breaks.)

That's at the core ...

But really, to me, I have lost touch with NASCAR because you no longer have that hot young talent come in and set the world on fire. No more Mark Martin's, Rusty Wallace's, Rob Moroso's etc coming in from out of nowhere. Now, the guys get groomed through truck and into Xfinnity and then Cup ... it's all so polished and professional and BORING.

Cut costs so that you have an abundance of teams trying to make each race.

Get back to the roots of what made NASCAR great -- talented guys driving the wheels of a car.

Agree with a lot of what you said Bill.... the bottom line is that NASCAR has evolved into a product that just does not entertain fans anymore.  Yes there are some good races, but there are very, very few 10-20 lap battles for position that go back and forth and keep fans on the edge of their seats.  Now it's whoever gets in the front and gets 'clean air' generally is pretty tough to beat.  

Want a great example of why fans got hooked on NASCAR?  Go watch the last 25 laps of the inaugural Brickyard 400 between Gordon and Irvan.... those guys wore each other out, back and forth, until they could barely hang on to the cars anymore.

(P.S. Bias ply tires are the ones you speak of; they could slide them all over the track, smoke pouring off every corner, and they still kept working somehow) 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, ChrisAkulis said:

Agree with a lot of what you said Bill.... the bottom line is that NASCAR has evolved into a product that just does not entertain fans anymore.  Yes there are some good races, but there are very, very few 10-20 lap battles for position that go back and forth and keep fans on the edge of their seats.  Now it's whoever gets in the front and gets 'clean air' generally is pretty tough to beat.  

Want a great example of why fans got hooked on NASCAR?  Go watch the last 25 laps of the inaugural Brickyard 400 between Gordon and Irvan.... those guys wore each other out, back and forth, until they could barely hang on to the cars anymore.

(P.S. Bias ply tires are the ones you speak of; they could slide them all over the track, smoke pouring off every corner, and they still kept working somehow) 

Remember when some teams raced Hoosier, others Goodyear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, leakin_fluids said:

Seeing as how ford announced it no longer will make sedans, does that mean the mustang is there car moving forward?

Yes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, inthecuse said:

Hahaha. I'd love to know your reasoning for that.

Dillon and Wallace haven't done squat since their lucky first and second finishes at Daytona. Maybe Dillon needs another lucky penny.

I do think Blaney is cool. I like the 'glass case of emotion' podcast with him, kim coon, and the other guy. 

Not sure what Dillion has to do with it but Wallace has had some good runs considering he’s a rookie in sub par equipment so far in the first 1/4 of the season. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/9/2018 at 5:06 AM, BobMiller said:

NASCAR is severely missing the boat. The current version of the Mustang could be (and SHOULD be) pitted head to head with the Camaro and the Challenger.

Seems to me like the NASCAR brass and the American Auto Manufacturers aren't as tight as they used to be. Toyota would have to develop a mid size car to compete with.

This nonsense of all the manufacturers having to use the same body template is a big part of the reason the sport is failing.

. . .and get the manufacturer rivalry involved again.

I'm not sure why Dodge isn't officially backing a program in NASCAR.  It seems like they're shooting themselves in the foot on that.  I feel like Chevy and Ford are fully behind their racing development programs for nascar as far the American manufacturers.

The Toyota Camry is their midsize model. You have the Corolla below it and the Avalon above it. They should use the 86 as their cup car.

And they really don't have the same template (even though it's not a template anymore). That's why Ford and Chevy were crying last year because Toyota was using them to wipe the floor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, PatsJags14 said:

Not sure what Dillion has to do with it but Wallace has had some good runs considering he’s a rookie in sub par equipment so far in the first 1/4 of the season. 

I threw Dillon in their because he hasn't done anything since Daytona. . .just like Wallace.

I'm not sure how bubba has subpar equipment running for the biggest name in nascar. I think it really just comes down to the fact that he's a subpar driver and got into nascar thru the driving for diversity program, not his driving skills.

Plus, him and his mom love making it political and about his skin color which is really annoying. Yes, we know he's black (and in reality he is half white). Who cares what his skin color is.  Bubba and his mom make white people sound like the worst people on earth but she dates a white guy and bubba dates a white girl. Plus bubba always has to tweet some pro-black message. He should focus more on his racing and maybe he'll do better than 25th.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
















×