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Aluminum big blocks have been around for 50 years. Bobby Gerhardt won the Lebanon Valley 200 in 1970 with one

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No heavy block is going to watch a 450 lb block go win and not do anything about it. One win on coils and everyone already had a coil car on the ready. Am I wrong?

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Once again, the big block class is slowly dying.....anyone with a cheaper option should be heard....a spec 23 degree cylinder head option with a weight break could be a huge help as well.....the switch may hurt a lot of smaller teams who have clawed together everything they had to build a semi competitive 18degree motor, but in a few years at the rate it’s going they won’t have anyplace to run them anyways.

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23 minutes ago, rpm72x said:

Once again, the big block class is slowly dying.....anyone with a cheaper option should be heard....a spec 23 degree cylinder head option with a weight break could be a huge help as well.....the switch may hurt a lot of smaller teams who have clawed together everything they had to build a semi competitive 18degree motor, but in a few years at the rate it’s going they won’t have anyplace to run them anyways.

If Mr D lets them run on his series they must be good. 😁😁😁

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I don’t believe deyo allows any aluminum blocks of his tour....I could be wrong....but once again if changes are not made mr. d’s tour will be the only one to follow. There should be zero kickback when it pertains to ideas to reign in the cost of a big block. Unless you live under a rock, everyone has heard the complaints about the cost, including the ones coming from the big, well funded teams. 

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1 hour ago, rpm72x said:

I don’t believe deyo allows any aluminum blocks of his tour....I could be wrong....but once again if changes are not made mr. d’s tour will be the only one to follow. There should be zero kickback when it pertains to ideas to reign in the cost of a big block. Unless you live under a rock, everyone has heard the complaints about the cost, including the ones coming from the big, well funded teams. 

Right from his rule book:

ENGINES & WEIGHTS (SOUTH REGION): Big- and small-block engine combinations are permitted to run 
on the Short Track Super Series. Chevrolet/GM, Ford or Chrysler/Dodge engines ONLY. Engines must be 
carbureted (no fuel injection). Aluminum small-blocks are not permitted. Small-block engines larger than
450 cubic inches are not permitted.
Specific weight guidelines are as follows for the South Region: PA/DIRTcar spec head small-block on gas
(with Big Diamond/Grandview/New Egypt seal ONLY): 2,275 lbs.; PA/DIRTcar spec head small-block on 
methanol (with Big Diamond/Grandview/New Egypt seal ONLY): 2,350 lbs.; ‘open’ small-blocks: 2,400 
lbs. (max. 363 cubic inches – tolerance is 370 cubic inches); big-blocks: 2,500 lbs. (more than 363 cubic 
inches, max. 477 cubic inches) & “Big Cubic Inch” or aluminum big-blocks (more than 477 cubic inches): 
2,600 lbs. All weights are track scale pounds, with driver in car, taken post-race. Series officials retain 
the right to adjust weights at any time.

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When aluminum big blocks have been tried in late model racing, they’ve generally had piss poor drivability. I don’t doubt that being 200lbs heavier like a big block mod might help the drivability, but I don’t think they’d be the magic bullet people think they are, at least at the beginning. 

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5 hours ago, rpm72x said:

Once again, the big block class is slowly dying.....anyone with a cheaper option should be heard....a spec 23 degree cylinder head option with a weight break could be a huge help as well.....the switch may hurt a lot of smaller teams who have clawed together everything they had to build a semi competitive 18degree motor, but in a few years at the rate it’s going they won’t have anyplace to run them anyways.

And how many years have we been hearing this?

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And how many guys have quit over the last few seasons? This isn’t hear say, you have a guy like Jake with a good amount of money to spend saying they need to be cheaper, you have guys each year getting out of racing or changing what they race, you have less big block tracks, and most still struggle to find 24 big blocks each week. I’m curious as to what your answer is? Series car counts- down, weekly car counts -down, amount of competitive cars-down, amount of people saying the big blocks are too expensive- up. Why is it a bad thing to explore cheaper options? I don’t agree with the aluminum block deal, I think there are much better, more affordable ways to help the situation, but I won’t condemn the idea. 

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I was wondering how long it would take before my Facebook post made it on here lol

 

Rob Hile 

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What if you made the 18 degree heads illegal on the aluminum block. Would it balance the weight to horse power ratio to make the motors a competitive option without making the motor a must have to be competitive. If an aluminum block is cheaper,  and you could eliminate the cost of the heads. I would think that if you could have a cheap option for your next motor without making what you have obsolete. 

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1 hour ago, rpm72x said:

And how many guys have quit over the last few seasons? This isn’t hear say, you have a guy like Jake with a good amount of money to spend saying they need to be cheaper, you have guys each year getting out of racing or changing what they race, you have less big block tracks, and most still struggle to find 24 big blocks each week. I’m curious as to what your answer is? Series car counts- down, weekly car counts -down, amount of competitive cars-down, amount of people saying the big blocks are too expensive- up. Why is it a bad thing to explore cheaper options? I don’t agree with the aluminum block deal, I think there are much better, more affordable ways to help the situation, but I won’t condemn the idea. 

Well, you see, my weekly track is OCFS, which doesn't seem to be experiencing any of what you speak of.  30 minutes door-to-door, full counts of quality cars in all divisions, the pits reek of money.  An exception to the rule, I suppose.  It's easy to ask "what the heck is he talking about?" 

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I will agree Middletown always has strong car counts, and there is a lot of money there....it’s kinda crazy because it is not cheap to race there....the cny tracks have not done as well....neither Brewerton or Fulton had a constant full field of big blocks, Fulton switched to 358 and Brewerton with 358s still struggle for 24 cars, Utica before the switch seen car counts fall to as low as 14 that I can remember with the big blocks, canandaigua usually is a 18-22 car field, Malta seems to do ok, but 358s race with them and are super competitive, Fonda’s car counts were nothing to write home about, Weedsport had a huge show for big blocks and struggled to see 28 cars right in the heart of big block country. The class needs to change.

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1 hour ago, brian moore said:

What if you made the 18 degree heads illegal on the aluminum block. Would it balance the weight to horse power ratio to make the motors a competitive option without making the motor a must have to be competitive. If an aluminum block is cheaper,  and you could eliminate the cost of the heads. I would think that if you could have a cheap option for your next motor without making what you have obsolete. 

Aluminum heads arent going to be allowed on the proposed engine, it will be a mandated 23 degree Dart head. Aluminum blocks aren’t cheaper, they cost about the same as a lightened Dart Block and don’t last nearly as long. The aluminum isn’t near as stable as the steel, most top latemodel teams cycle the blocks out after 2 or 3 rebuilds, I am currently in the process of lightning Dart Block serial number 37042 and we have a customer with Dart Block #256 and it won races the last few years. The tough part is the aluminum engine is going to be a huge advantage because of the overall engine being 100# lighter, and there are talks of giving it a weight break against a steel engine. The whole intent of my post was to make everyone aware of the proposed engine because if this engine comes about and it has a definite advantage there are a lot of people who spent years getting their engine peogram where it is today and they won’t be able to go out and buy the new $27,000 spec engine.  The other part is this who can afford it will have both options and will be able to pick and choose what engine combination they want to run depending on track conditions. 

 

Rob Hile 

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So basically the only option we have is to stick with the rules we have until the whole class dies. 

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26 minutes ago, Rebob5 said:

Aluminum heads arent going to be allowed on the proposed engine, it will be a mandated 23 degree Dart head. Aluminum blocks aren’t cheaper, they cost about the same as a lightened Dart Block and don’t last nearly as long. The aluminum isn’t near as stable as the steel, most top latemodel teams cycle the blocks out after 2 or 3 rebuilds, I am currently in the process of lightning Dart Block serial number 37042 and we have a customer with Dart Block #256 and it won races the last few years. The tough part is the aluminum engine is going to be a huge advantage because of the overall engine being 100# lighter, and there are talks of giving it a weight break against a steel engine. The whole intent of my post was to make everyone aware of the proposed engine because if this engine comes about and it has a definite advantage there are a lot of people who spent years getting their engine peogram where it is today and they won’t be able to go out and buy the new $27,000 spec engine.  The other part is this who can afford it will have both options and will be able to pick and choose what engine combination they want to run depending on track conditions. 

 

Rob Hile 

Thank you Rob for sharing. I don’t know how the future of BB racing isn’t touring only? Let the big, well funded, rich teams follow a travel only schedule (no home track) and move towards a 358 headline division in their place. The 358 already has a spec engine in place. There needs to be a step between a crate and a BB and the spec w16 could be this. 

Again, there should be a place for the big teams and I see it as a touring series which in a sense makes them special and might create more interest if you only get to see them once in a while at your local track as opposed to every week

just my two cents 

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32 minutes ago, brian moore said:

So basically the only option we have is to stick with the rules we have until the whole class dies. 

I know, 20+ cars already signed up to run the series 70 big blocks at Oswego and awesome racing, 40 big blocks in Charlotte, 40 big blocks in Florida. So we don’t get 37 cars weekly at big block tracks, I’d take 17 good quality cars over 5 great ones and 12 field fillers any day. I just don’t see big Block Racing in a bad of a position that people are saying it’s in. 

Rob Hile 

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While I completely understand what your saying rob, if 50 guys get hurt by the new rule, 30 of those fold up completely, but 100 guys decide over the next couple of years to buy the new engine and move up, it was a success. You guys race/raced with a bunch of teams that have got out of racing or left the area because it’s far too costly to be competitive. 17 good quality cars sounds good, but if there are 200 races run over the summer the top 5% of drivers win 90% of the races. That’s not quality competition. The matt Sheppard’s and stew Friesens will always win, they are the best of the best and natural talents, but it’s a whole lot better for a team to show up and at least know they are in the ball park equipment wise rather than being down on motors,cars and talent.

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So let me see if I have this straight.........guys wont be able to afford this $27,000 engine but they will be able to keep affording $45,000 plus engines????? Sounds to me like some builders are most concerned with their own livelihood.

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6 hours ago, macho said:

So let me see if I have this straight.........guys wont be able to afford this $27,000 engine but they will be able to keep affording $45,000 plus engines????? Sounds to me like some builders are most concerned with their own livelihood.

They are not buying $45.000 engines every year. The smaller teams that have built up their inventory and have a decent engine program are the ones that will be hurt the most, much like any rule change.

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:suicide:

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1 hour ago, ranger22 said:

They are not buying $45.000 engines every year. The smaller teams that have built up their inventory and have a decent engine program are the ones that will be hurt the most, much like any rule change.

Agree 100%! 

I know teams that took 3 years to save up to build a quality big block. Now, that engine they worked so hard to get *may* be obsoleted. 

This is the same thing that is going on with the W16 in the 358 ranks.

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