Jump to content



Sign in to follow this  
racermurray

STSS vs SDS----entertainment factor

Recommended Posts

Having attended both Thunder Mountain and Weedsport this weekend I must say the STSS format of heats , consi's and B main was much more entertaining than the SDS format of time trials , heats(no passing) and consi's.....opinions?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, racermurray said:

Having attended both Thunder Mountain and Weedsport this weekend I must say the STSS format of heats , consi's and B main was much more entertaining than the SDS format of time trials , heats(no passing) and consi's.....opinions?

I don’t think there’s any question about it. Of course it was magnified because although Weedsport is an incredible facility the racing surface is less than stellar. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To each there own. I despise time trials, even more so when cars are started straight up from them.

Lining cars straight up from time trials is a way of catering to the drivers at the expense of the fans. 

However, it would only change if the fans didn't show up and since the SDS draws great crowds, they have no reason to change it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Eagleonemotorsports said:

Don’t the World of Outlaws sprint cars use a different format where the fastest guys usually start like 5 or 6 in heat?

They got rid of that format I believe a few years ago because I think sometimes guys were purposely trying to sand bag qualifying to try and get in those top spots for the invert.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, racermurray said:

Having attended both Thunder Mountain and Weedsport this weekend I must say the STSS format of heats , consi's and B main was much more entertaining than the SDS format of time trials , heats(no passing) and consi's.....opinions?

STSS does group time trials for all the south region shows. From their rulebook:

QUALIFYING: Drivers will register and draw for hot lap groups at all Short Track Super Series South 
Region events. Drivers must hot lap in assigned heat-race groups. Hot laps will be timed. Utilizing those 
times, an invert will coincide with the number of cars scheduled to redraw (if the redraw is three, then 
the fastest car from the group will start the heat race third via the invert). The remainder of the heat
lineup will be heads-up from times. Top qualifiers from each heat race will transfer to the redraw. The 
feature event starting field will be filled by qualified cars from heat races, consolations and provisional 
starter

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I def like the STSS format better. I find it more entertaining. The whole evening is entertaining. With the SDS, there is no sense showing up til the feature if your looking for action/passing. Yawn. I also get to watch a group of drivers that I don't normally get to see. More entertainment value & cheaper overall too.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you belong in the feature, you'll qualify under the same format that everyone uses.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, RJO said:

STSS does group time trials for all the south region shows. From their rulebook:

QUALIFYING: Drivers will register and draw for hot lap groups at all Short Track Super Series South 
Region events. Drivers must hot lap in assigned heat-race groups. Hot laps will be timed. Utilizing those 
times, an invert will coincide with the number of cars scheduled to redraw (if the redraw is three, then 
the fastest car from the group will start the heat race third via the invert). The remainder of the heat
lineup will be heads-up from times. Top qualifiers from each heat race will transfer to the redraw. The 
feature event starting field will be filled by qualified cars from heat races, consolations and provisional 
starter

Thunder mountain was a North Region race :

QUALIFYING: At all Short Track Super Series North Region events, drivers will draw to determine heatrace starting positions. North Region events will utilize a straight-up draw/redraw method. Draws take place at the Short Track Super Series trailer in public view during the pre-race drivers’ meeting. Drivers must register their cars prior to the start of the drivers’ meeting for inclusion in the draw.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I enjoy watching both the STSS and the SDS.

As far as the time trials go , I  understand the need to try and move things along. But to me, single car time trials are much more entertaining  to watch than group.  It is fun sometimes to hear where and when cars get on and off the throttle.  Who lifts, and who does not

Group time trials seem like I am watching hot laps. 

 If I remember correctly, the STSS event at Port Royal this year actually combined the two.  Hot laps for the cars and time trials were one and the same 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Group time trials tells you right away who is fast because you see who is closing gaps on other cars.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I do not like the straight up heat line ups based off of time trial times. But they can still provide good racing on the right tracks. I really like what USAC does. USAC takes your top qualifiers and they then start 6th in the heat races after the inversion. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, NickF83 said:

Personally I do not like the straight up heat line ups based off of time trial times. But they can still provide good racing on the right tracks. I really like what USAC does. USAC takes your top qualifiers and they then start 6th in the heat races after the inversion. 

So you want to time trial okay but not great. It would be interesting to watch that one play out

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, NickF83 said:

Personally I do not like the straight up heat line ups based off of time trial times. But they can still provide good racing on the right tracks. I really like what USAC does. USAC takes your top qualifiers and they then start 6th in the heat races after the inversion. 

How many make the show from the heats? Putting cars 6th and out of a feature spot kind of defeats the purpose of qualifying right? Because won’t you start to sand bag qualifying and try to get further back so you start closer to the front in the heat?

A better way to do it is maybe lock the top four overall in or something like that from qualifying and then use an invert, say 4-6 for the heats. Then the question is, how do you line up feature? Straight up from heats or do a redraw for top 3-4 from each heat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, WheelsUpHammerDown10 said:

How many make the show from the heats? Putting cars 6th and out of a feature spot kind of defeats the purpose of qualifying right? Because won’t you start to sand bag qualifying and try to get further back so you start closer to the front in the heat?

A better way to do it is maybe lock the top four overall in or something like that from qualifying and then use an invert, say 4-6 for the heats. Then the question is, how do you line up feature? Straight up from heats or do a redraw for top 3-4 from each heat.

If I’m not mistaken, USAC lines up their feature by TT’s from those invert drivers. For example, if Brady Bacon sets QT in TT’s in a USAC National Midget event, he will start P6 in his heat. As long as he qualifies through the heat, he becomes the pole sitter in the A. Now if he doesn’t transfer through the heat, obviously he must run the B. If he transfers through the B, in any transfer position, he gets his time back from TT’s. This puts him directly behind all heat transfers, ahead of all B transfers. So, like most other series who utilize TT’s, they’re everything to your race night.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of these qualifying formats are just way to convoluted. 

Im not a fan of inversions. You earned a good spot through bringing a good car and driving good in your qualifying. 

Up in the air on TT and lining up heats based upon them. One part of me says this is the SDS, the best of the best. Bring it. Qualify fast for a good heat spot. Start up front in heat for a better feature start. Your earning it from the minute you walk in the pit gate. On the flip side, random draw through the gate for your heat spot, puts everyone on equal ground. then lineup feature based upon heat finishes. I feel Scenerio A is the more professional model, where as Scenerio B is the more grassroots battle it out style.

Tough call. I guess in the end as long as its a great night of racing action from start to finish it doesn't matter how we get to the checkers.  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only perfect format is the Knoxville Nationals. You need to be good every time you go on the track and are afforded no advantages by timing well. You can’t do that at every race because Knoxville is the type of track that affords passing. Many tracks don’t get wide enough for passing until the feature.

If I were in charge of Dirtcar, I’d have the following format: 

- Group time trials

- 2 sets of heats; first heat lined up by time; heat winners automatically to draw, remainder to 2nd set of heats, invert the top 6 and calculate passing points from first and second heats for the remainder of the draw for Feature. 

- Consolation events lined up by passing points 

-  A main feature- 50 or 60 laps, no caution laps counting. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, 80K said:

Some of these qualifying formats are just way to convoluted. 

Im not a fan of inversions. You earned a good spot through bringing a good car and driving good in your qualifying. 

Up in the air on TT and lining up heats based upon them. One part of me says this is the SDS, the best of the best. Bring it. Qualify fast for a good heat spot. Start up front in heat for a better feature start. Your earning it from the minute you walk in the pit gate. On the flip side, random draw through the gate for your heat spot, puts everyone on equal ground. then lineup feature based upon heat finishes. I feel Scenerio A is the more professional model, where as Scenerio B is the more grassroots battle it out style.

Tough call. I guess in the end as long as its a great night of racing action from start to finish it doesn't matter how we get to the checkers.  

I don't think a draw belongs on the sds. It's the best of modified racing right? Why shouldn't they start in the position they earn? Drawing is not something I like to do but I'll take it over the handicapping system most tracks use weekly. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always love this augment.  Personally I hate time trails and for the most part won’t go very often if they have them

It’s makes for very boring heat races imo. Then most say why should your fate depend on a blind draw.   Ok that’s fine that a good augment. But why is it ok for the feature to be lined up by a blind draw then?   If you had quick time, won your heat race why not start that driver on the pole for the A-main?  Instead he could start 12th.  So that’s ok but god forbid he might have to start 8th in A heat race.  

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, weekly racing is usually better as a whole than a time trial format event. Time trials wont keep me away but i also know what to expect from each show. 

Honestly how can anyone say that a show with the fast cars starting up front is better than a show with the fast cars handicapped into the top 15, moving to the front?  

  • Like 8
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, PaGeOrGaBleBHisable said:

Personally, weekly racing is usually better as a whole than a time trial format event. Time trials wont keep me away but i also know what to expect from each show. 

Honestly how can anyone say that a show with the fast cars starting up front is better than a show with the fast cars handicapped into the top 15, moving to the front?  

Been to OCFS lately? Don’t waste your money, their format sucks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, WheelsUpHammerDown10 said:

How many make the show from the heats? Putting cars 6th and out of a feature spot kind of defeats the purpose of qualifying right? Because won’t you start to sand bag qualifying and try to get further back so you start closer to the front in the heat?

A better way to do it is maybe lock the top four overall in or something like that from qualifying and then use an invert, say 4-6 for the heats. Then the question is, how do you line up feature? Straight up from heats or do a redraw for top 3-4 from each heat.

So with USAC they usually take a varying number based on car count. But the fastest qualifiers start 6th in the heats. the benefit of it, is then that you receive your time back for the feature event. So if you win your heat, and were the quick qualifier you then usually have the front row for the feature. Also they pay points out for qualifying, heats and obviously the feature so every moment you're on track matters. It proved evident last season as Courtney and KTJ tied for the points, but Courtney had more feature wins. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The modified feature at weedport was good.   But where’s the track Prep for the heat races.    I just don’t understand why they can’t see how boring it is to sit there and watch a skating rink.     Why would a weekly guy go and try to qualify 

I don’t see how anyone could enjoy watching time trials.   They might as well take the top 12 out of time trials and run the feature.     I love dirt racing but the heat races are pointless to watch.    I might as well sit out in the parking lot drink my free beer and listen to it in the radio.   

And how many caution Laps do they need to line cars up after a spin out?    5 every  caution    They have radios and you shouldn’t have enough time to change a shock because they parade around trying to get cars lined up

I’ll take a STSS Race anyday.

Draw a number at the gate.   Run your heat race.   B main if need be.  Big show let’s go.   

Time trials should be for races that require pit stops. 

Man up!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Time trials are never fun to watch and I like a feature where only green flag laps count. I have never understood the fascination with 100 lap races where cautions count for the first 75 laps and then don't count. I follow the Late Models a lot and I like a 50 green flag laps as a steady diet and a 100 green flag lap race is something special.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whether it be STSS or SDS, these events for the most part are on weeknights and most people have to work the next morning. Don’t make these shows more than what they need to be. No support classes, save em for the regular weekend show, this is a special event. US Anthem only and first, sorry Canada, we’ll listen to yours when the race is there. No time trials. Top point drivers draw first for heat races. Make the heats worthwhile and give the drivers who got an unlucky pick a chance: 15 laps. Same for the consolation(s). No redraw. Start the feature according to how well you qualified. But invert heat order in feature. Example: Winner of first of six heats, starts 6th. 30 minute intermission. No long driver intro, we know who they are. Feature: 75 laps, cautions don’t count. Done. Make your 2-3 hr drive home safe, you gotta get a few hours of sleep before work tomorrow.

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
















×