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38 minutes ago, burtonfan1995 said:

Not only that, the tracks are fast and tacky around here if it rains at say 3 PM the day of a race. It just seems like NY promoters are scared to water the track sometimes.

You'd probably be shocked by how much water the tracks actually are putting down on these tracks.  There are a ton of factors that go into prepping the racing surface.  Water is just one component. 

I don't care how much water you put on the track, if its 80 degrees with no humidity with sun and a moderate breeze, you're going to have a slick surface, unless you start racing after the sun goes down.  But do that and you enter the realm of running past 10pm, which seems to be the line in the sand for most fans.

I feel like part of the reason you get the surfaces you do in the midwest and south is the humidity in the air.  That has got to help keep moisture in the racing surface, and in upstate New York, humidity is rarely a factor.  Ask folks who have been to Knoxville for the Nationals.  The humidity out there is on par with Florida.  You can't tell me that doesn't help the racing surface. 

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56 minutes ago, FondaFan16 said:

That’s bologna right there.  To the naked eye walking in the pit area sure, there is no visible difference between a big block modified and a 602 sportsman. 

Put them on the track though and you can instantly tell the difference.  The sound of the engine alone would be enough to set them apart, let alone the speed differential. 

To the new fan they will not be able to tell the difference by sound. 3 or 4 divisions running at the same track with all the same appearance to them could get a little boring for some fans.

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48 minutes ago, FondaFan16 said:

You'd probably be shocked by how much water the tracks actually are putting down on these tracks.  There are a ton of factors that go into prepping the racing surface.  Water is just one component. 

I don't care how much water you put on the track, if its 80 degrees with no humidity with sun and a moderate breeze, you're going to have a slick surface, unless you start racing after the sun goes down.  But do that and you enter the realm of running past 10pm, which seems to be the line in the sand for most fans.

I feel like part of the reason you get the surfaces you do in the midwest and south is the humidity in the air.  That has got to help keep moisture in the racing surface, and in upstate New York, humidity is rarely a factor.  Ask folks who have been to Knoxville for the Nationals.  The humidity out there is on par with Florida.  You can't tell me that doesn't help the racing surface. 

FondaFan16, I tend to agree with you, there are many variables in prepping a track (of which I am no expert), but certain track conditions tend to be perpetuated at certain tracks regardless of the atmospheric conditions week in & week out! Not to pick on Utica Rome but it's always dry slick as snot there, not a condition I enjoy, hence I rarely attend many races there. 

I must be in the minority, I like a wet, fast racy track, lots of bite, everyone goes fast type track! I like speed, not everyone following the leader "Hans Brinker" style racing. I understand afternoon shows are tough to get a great track but rubbered up dry slick isn't what I want to spend my money on, sorry! I hear former fans say the reason they don't go any longer is because of the dust, they don't want to sit through it not being able to see what they paid to see. As a kid & a teenager attending Fonda Speedway we sat in the 4th turn we used to get hit with mud balls not a sahara style dust storm, a condition the exists at many tracks. I know the cars are going faster & there are more of them but there must be a happy medium someplace. We aren't going to get those fans back or retain the ones we have until we can provide the consumer(the fans) a better product. As a car owner, former driver & most of all a racing fan I ask this question in an effort to explore what is desired, I'd like to hear from more of you!

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15 hours ago, RJO said:

You can't tell one division from another without a program. 😊

This i fully agree with. One idea i had proposed was to make the sportsman run the MD3 (or other brands) plastic noses with the fins that imca/ump mods run. It would give a minor distinct look right up front when the cars roll off the track. Cost wise it would be a little cheaper. The MD3 noses run about $169 where the current metal ones are upwards of $190+. Sure $30 dont sound like much a difference but thats a pit pass, thats fuel money. But ultimately it would give that different look for fans to differentiate the classes and would not be a major cost factor to drivers. Its almost one of those no brainers and would serve a good purpose with really no negative effects. 

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There’s some confusion regarding some terms describing track conditions. When a track gets black and slick ( like Fulton for the Outlaw 200) that is what we (racers) refer to as “dry slick” or “black slick”. That black stuff you see on the track surface is not rubber but actually oils and resins that get sucked out of the tires and deposited onto the surface. That’s why it’s slippery. It’s also why a tire that has been ground works better, at least initially, than one that hasn’t. Because the area of the tire that no longer has the oils and resins gets ground away to fresh rubber with the oils and resins in it which helps it work better. 

A “rubbered up” or “rubbered in” track is when a particular groove, usually around the bottom,  becomes significantly faster than any other groove because rubber actually gets deposited from the tires onto the track. As a driver you usually feel it before you see it happen. It can just part of a turn or the whole track that gets rubbered up. If you were to look at that area it would look dull black instead of shiny. As a fan it would probably be first noticed when the lap times start to get quicker and then the cars will start to gravitate to a single groove, and there’s also a lot less, if any passing. And sometimes you can smell rubber (I’ve actually smelled it in the racecar at times). Hope this clears things up. 

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1 hour ago, REDDFOXX said:

I like a wet, fast racy track, lots of bite, everyone goes fast type track! 

Where is this place?  A track which is wet, fast, and provides great racing?  That's gotta be an extreme rarity cuz 9 times outta 10 those conditions produce a whole lotta speed with very little passing. 

*with the cars we have in the northeast

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4 minutes ago, matt_s86 said:

Where is this place?  A track which is wet, fast, and provides great racing?  That's gotta be an extreme rarity cuz 9 times outta 10 those conditions produce a whole lotta speed with very little passing. 

*with the cars we have in the northeast

I agree with that. Most of the time when its heavy the modifieds get in a line in the middle

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This topic needs videos.  Here's one from Fairbury American Legion Speedway.  Place looks so fun.  It typically gets very slick through the middle with a nasty cushion and the option to putt around the bottom.  I think the key is the bottom being so much flatter.

 

 

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1 minute ago, matt_s86 said:

This topic needs videos.  Here's one from Fairbury American Legion Speedway.  Place looks so fun.  It typically gets very slick through the middle with a nasty cushion and the option to putt around the bottom.  I think the key is the bottom being so much flatter.

 

 

The problem is you have to have good dirt to work with or no amount of track prep is going to save you. The other thing to consider is those modifieds have independent front suspension and 4 link rears. The handling is so much different that it's hard to say if a northeast mod would race as well on that track

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26 minutes ago, Devin Willis said:

The problem is you have to have good dirt to work with or no amount of track prep is going to save you. The other thing to consider is those modifieds have independent front suspension and 4 link rears. The handling is so much different that it's hard to say if a northeast mod would race as well on that track

Could you please elaborate on your comment? I fail to see how suspension type is indicative of track surface/prep and the level of racing. The major differentiation is the tires. The IMCA G60's are not conducive for racing on dry/slick tracks as evidenced by  the local scene in NY. and i feel contributed to their downfall up here. (another topic for another time).  without more info your last sentence read as "kids say the funniest things." 

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They should do same tire wise with the modifieds as Imca. Put them on hockey pucks and then the superstars God knows how many dollar motor don't mean any more than Johnny low buck built in garage motor. 

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1 hour ago, matt_s86 said:

Where is this place?  A track which is wet, fast, and provides great racing?  That's gotta be an extreme rarity cuz 9 times outta 10 those conditions produce a whole lotta speed with very little passing. 

*with the cars we have in the northeast

The best example I can give you is Glen Ridge Motorsports Park, their surface was one of the best I've ever seen! I haven't been there in 2 seasons but it used to be a great track to run on.  They had some off nights but for the most part it was a great surface. 

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6 minutes ago, dan dan said:

They should do same tire wise with the modifieds as Imca. Put them on hockey pucks and then the superstars God knows how many dollar motor don't mean any more than Johnny low buck built in garage motor. 

If IMCA style cars are so great how come they can't get  a following in the northeast, because real dirt modifieds are so much more fun to watch! Not trying to slam the guys with those cars, I know they are popular nationwide but there is no comparison to SB/BB Northeast style dirt modifieds, IMO

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6 minutes ago, REDDFOXX said:

The best example I can give you is Glen Ridge Motorsports Park, their surface was one of the best I've ever seen! I haven't been there in 2 seasons but it used to be a great track to run on.  They had some off nights but for the most part it was a great surface. 

Used to be that way, this year with the weather we have had, swamp to start at 3-4 pm, by features dry, dusty and slick. If you follow lap times its easy to see vs just watching. Single groove bottom that has been pushed so low the last few years. 1-2 is practically flat around both turns.

go down to fonda and under neath  the few inches of racing surface its like jello still. Mother nature has been no friend when it comes to ground conditions around the mohawk valley for sure !

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17 hours ago, RJO said:

You can't tell one division from another without a program. 😊

Listen to the announcers. 

 

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54 minutes ago, 80K said:

Could you please elaborate on your comment? I fail to see how suspension type is indicative of track surface/prep and the level of racing. The major differentiation is the tires. The IMCA G60's are not conducive for racing on dry/slick tracks as evidenced by  the local scene in NY. and i feel contributed to their downfall up here. (another topic for another time).  without more info your last sentence read as "kids say the funniest things." 

The suspension wont change the track conditions but it will change how the racing plays out. Just becuase late model racing is awesome in some conditions doesnt mean modifieds are going to be awesome. I love watching videos from Boone. Nothing up here is anywhere close to that kind of racing but everytime we get a track remotely that tacky we all just get in a line. That problem is especially bad for sportsman

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3 hours ago, RJO said:

To the new fan they will not be able to tell the difference by sound. 3 or 4 divisions running at the same track with all the same appearance to them could get a little boring for some fans.

I fail to see what the bodies look like in comparison to one another is that it really makes a difference to a newbie or a novice fan, do you really think a different nose would really make them say, i now know one from the other? All football, basketball, baseball & hockey teams look alike, it's when you start to watch them you can tell the varsity from the JV's. 

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Redd not looking to argue, but 1 they don't get a chance around here to get established, and it appears atleast from this site that only thing that matters in this region is northeast mod style cars. Everything else is support not worth watching classes. There must be some sort of reason Boone gets 300 plus cars in one class, sdw ain't anywhere near that with one or two maybe three classes. We have what we have and people don't like change. 

Would you agree thou, no matter how much $ you have in car, a rock hard hockey puck helps equal it out. 

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4 hours ago, FondaFan16 said:

You'd probably be shocked by how much water the tracks actually are putting down on these tracks.  There are a ton of factors that go into prepping the racing surface.  Water is just one component. 

I don't care how much water you put on the track, if its 80 degrees with no humidity with sun and a moderate breeze, you're going to have a slick surface, unless you start racing after the sun goes down.  But do that and you enter the realm of running past 10pm, which seems to be the line in the sand for most fans.

I feel like part of the reason you get the surfaces you do in the midwest and south is the humidity in the air.  That has got to help keep moisture in the racing surface, and in upstate New York, humidity is rarely a factor.  Ask folks who have been to Knoxville for the Nationals.  The humidity out there is on par with Florida.  You can't tell me that doesn't help the racing surface. 

So the weather use to be different in the 60’ 70’s  80’s and 90’s? I’m sorry but when a track is turns black and dusty 3 laps into pro stock warmups that’s a lack of track prep not a lack of humidity.  But as we seen 2 weeks ago, when a track isn’t like that and it’s wet the drivers/owners start crying.   

I’m with you redd give me a fast wet tracky track with a big cushion.   If we don’t want to go fast why are drivers spending 50k on motors?  

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53 minutes ago, 22racingteam said:

 But as we seen 2 weeks ago, when a track isn’t like that and it’s wet the drivers/owners start crying.   

I’m with you redd give me a fast wet tracky track with a big cushion.   If we don’t want to go fast why are drivers spending 50k on motors?  

22, two weeks ago we won our heat race with a best lap time 19.5 after low 19's in warmups advance ahead one week to June 8, we again won our heat with a fast last time of 22.1, only difference being track conditions... 22.5 lap times were what I ran there many years ago with about half the horsepower!

Blame whoever you want, that's why I started this post, I've already stated what I like but I was hoping to hear from those who don't like what I do, I just don't see what racing on slippery, dusty boned up tracks that some people enjoy. You wreck at Fonda, The valley, Rolling wheels or any place where you carry a lot of speed you're going to have a wadded up race car regardless of lap times!

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3 hours ago, matt_s86 said:

This topic needs videos.  Here's one from Fairbury American Legion Speedway.  Place looks so fun.  It typically gets very slick through the middle with a nasty cushion and the option to putt around the bottom.  I think the key is the bottom being so much flatter.

 

 

Thats what i call racing

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I'd love to see BB mods here. Unfortunately this place is in Iowa

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 I think the deal is, track prep yes.   But.......some tracks just have way better  surface clay than others to begin with.

Based on the rain CNY has had for weeks upon weeks now.  The garden has suffered from root rot . And parts of the yard have yet to be mowed. Maybe it never will be

I do understand how any track could possibly be too dry?   But it happens.   

 

Another thing I do not understand.  How is it people automatically  associate dry slick tracks with dust?   Dry slick tracks can many times be the least dusty of any .  There is nothing there to blow around

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22 hours ago, Josh Bayko said:

Smooth and slick with a cushion and a strip of brown along the bottom. 

I am with this.

Port Royal, just about every time I have been.  They even managed to get a good surface for day time racing

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2 hours ago, dan dan said:

Redd not looking to argue, but 1 they don't get a chance around here to get established, and it appears atleast from this site that only thing that matters in this region is northeast mod style cars. Everything else is support not worth watching classes. There must be some sort of reason Boone gets 300 plus cars in one class, sdw ain't anywhere near that with one or two maybe three classes. We have what we have and people don't like change. 

Would you agree thou, no matter how much $ you have in car, a rock hard hockey puck helps equal it out. 

dan dan, The prostocks are very competitive & sometimes provide the best racing of the night, well worth watching & the 602's are as well.

Car counts for SDW have dwindled because of the cost to race that weekend, before Oswego you needed a Syracuse body & a lot of money for tires, LV type engines & chassis, fuel & accommodations. Most cars running SDW aren't your Sat. night specials as they were when SDW first got started. 

For some reason the IMCA cars just haven't caught on, red headed step child I guess!

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