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4 minutes ago, Eagleonemotorsports said:

Sick, 

thats ok I’m fine with McDonald’s! 

You need to try the sugar free menu there!

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54 minutes ago, Eagleonemotorsports said:

Dale

i posted my name along time ago but it’s David Surace or as many people at the races call me Spider-Man:)I have worked around race cars and help with a number of tracks. I’ve put on car show and helped with other events. I worked for Brett in 1984 and loved going to OCFS. Any track I’ve been with Race director runs the show! His call is final. No different than a series race , traveling race director is in charge. I go to about 25-30 different tracks a year. Most tracks I go to I pick up a few things and recommended them to the track. Was at Bubba’s 3 weeks ago and noticed they didn’t have enough garbage cans in the pits. 1 can for 3 grandstands so where do you think most of it was going? They thanked me and said it was a good idea. Next night back there was more. Trust me I want to see our sport grow get stronger. I’d love the chance to talk to Chris about some ideas to put more fans in the stands weekly . How about putting on a bigger paying show without costing the track an extra? Unfortunately I was at Volusia Speedway when you ran the big race. I’m trying to saying And it’s Chris Track you can’t have the owner of the track that has cars running in the field over ruling officials because it doesn’t look good. Do you think if Stewie was say changing a tire and looked to be all done so the flagger throws the one to go but it drops off the jack and he’s going to need another lap. Do you think there going green? I bet if it’s Matt Shephard right now the pace car is going 5 mPH faster!:)) jk Depending on if I have to go to Laguna Seca for Michelin I might make it down for the last points show next week. 

So are you telling me Chris has the final call that’s all I’m was asking.

I honestly have never heard of a race director being overruled on a decision he made in race.Now I'm sure a few track owners, have disagreed with their director's.I would think the proper to way to deal with this would be a meeting after the race.But what do we know were just stupid race fans.

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As far as a race director being over ruled by a track owner or promoter

 

When before has a race director gone against what is written in the tracks  or the  sanctions rule book?

How often does this happen?

 

Should not  part of the race directors job be to enforce the tracks rules as they are written?

Not  a good idea for the race director to  start making up his own rules after the race has already started..

 

 

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In my 47 years of involvement either as participant, employee or fan, the race director oversees all aspects of on track activity and is judge, juror and executioner in on track decision making, including rules interpretation and enforcement. 

General Manager oversees everything else.

The race director did his job in this case. Sometimes  making adjustments to rules are necessary to keep everyone happy. I've seen cases where 7 laps of a feature were run off and a quick rain storm wiped out half of the field and cancelling the remainder of the show. The following week, rather than start at lap 7 and all of the wrecked cars starting at the rear, the entire feature was restarted at lap 0 using the original starting lineup.

Consistency is what keeps people happy. If a premature yellow is thrown for a car wall surfing and he is given his position back, that needs to happen every time. 

Just to make a point, I was one of the few who supported Friesen in his rooftop protest at ESW a bunch of years ago, so this isn't a witch hunt. All I am saying is, if he dropped even one position when the yellow was thrown, he restarts at the rear. 

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Leroy 

i think part of a Race Directors job is to adjust to the situations at hand. I’m guessing Mike felt that the best thing to do was give everyone a fair shot and a complete restart the way they were running on the last completed green flag. Let’s face it the first mistake was probably starting the race . Not sure who made that call. Here’s the thing we need to really understand, Mike had  nothing to gain by making the call he did other than give the racers a fair chance. 

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"Whether you like Matt Sheppard or not, he stood up for everyone who made repairs - including Larry Wight. "  

I laughed out loud at this....that is one helluva presumption if I ever saw one.

Matt cares about Matt.  Period.

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7 hours ago, inthecuse said:

I can feel the tension building here.  

What's next,  you're going to tell gasket he's a POS and he needs to get back to his tower? 

Well,  that could lead to a ban from ocfs AND dtd.

Nope end of this conversation 

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9 minutes ago, DaRooster said:

"Whether you like Matt Sheppard or not, he stood up for everyone who made repairs - including Larry Wight. "  

I laughed out loud at this....that is one helluva presumption if I ever saw one.

Matt cares about Matt.  Period.

Matt did specifically state that Larry was one of the people he thought was screwed. 

 

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I think the part that has everyone frazzled is the time between the call and the override. I have seen many, many, many calls by a race director being overridden by a promoter. I can't count how many times I've seen it at the valley ... especially when it comes to disqualifications over technical issues. I've seen it at Fonda, Malta, The Ridge, and Accord in semi-recent history.

Okay ... a mistake was made and another mistake was made in the attempt to right the first mistake.

People are bashing the track because it was $100,000 race.

Think about that for a minute.

If this was a $500 to win race, no one could be bothered to make a post about it. But, because there was $100,00 on the line, people are talking about it 2 weeks later.

In short ... people are being bashed for making it an issue worth fighting over.

For the record ... I'm still pretty indifferent about the whole thing. I think the best move would have been to let everyone work on their cars as much as they wanted to, restart the race from the position they were in at the time of the rain storm, and let the cards fall where they may.

I've also had the luxury of having two weeks to think about it, with no one breathing down my neck to make a decision that would best benefit them.

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1 hour ago, BobMiller said:

In my 47 years of involvement either as participant, employee or fan, the race director oversees all aspects of on track activity and is judge, juror and executioner in on track decision making, including rules interpretation and enforcement. 

General Manager oversees everything else.

The race director did his job in this case. Sometimes  making adjustments to rules are necessary to keep everyone happy. I've seen cases where 7 laps of a feature were run off and a quick rain storm wiped out half of the field and cancelling the remainder of the show. The following week, rather than start at lap 7 and all of the wrecked cars starting at the rear, the entire feature was restarted at lap 0 using the original starting lineup.

Consistency is what keeps people happy. If a premature yellow is thrown for a car wall surfing and he is given his position back, that needs to happen every time. 

Just to make a point, I was one of the few who supported Friesen in his rooftop protest at ESW a bunch of years ago, so this isn't a witch hunt. All I am saying is, if he dropped even one position when the yellow was thrown, he restarts at the rear. 

You brought up a couple key words.      everyone happy

The amount of cars with damage was I believe 14 cars?  However 42 cars started the race.  Changing the rules in the middle of the game effects ALL teams.  Not just the wrecked cars.

Put me in the group that feels the race director did not do his job correctly.  Had the  OCFS red flag rules been applied correctly right from the get go.  All of the shtt storm and drama to follow is non existent.   

It is impossible to keep everyone happy.    But rules are rules.     

 And obviously without them......................

 

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14 cars from a 42 car starting field is 1/3. It was raining when they dropped the green. The race should never have been started and resulted in a monster crash 12 laps later. People who were there are saying it rained the entire 12 laps.

The race director realized that they probably shouldn't have started the race and tried to rectify that by allowing teams to repair cars to continue. Doing so without penalty was a commendable gesture. 

You say the race director didn't do his job, but he did. If the grand high supreme being didn't like that call, he should have stopped the teams from making repairs immediately. HE is the one who didn't do his job.

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Bob, my apologies .... I thought you were at the race. 44 cars started and I was in the first turn with a camera. Thanks for letting me know it was lightning and raining for 12 laps. I personally like everyone involved in the incidents you mentioned from Mr Sanchelli to Matt Sheppard. I didn’t say Mr. Sanchelli didn’t do his job. That’s you saying it. “Grand High Supreme” .... really. Last time I checked it’s called the track owner. I’ll give you my report without the emotional drama. It was one of the best races at OCFS. Side by side racing and the ability to win the race from any starting track position. Now I know you weren’t there but that’s what happened.  I’m enjoying your blame game.... please continue repeating yourself over and over and over again. 

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Dale , I know your trying to defend your brother but responding with sarcasm and belittling other people on this forum is neither positive or productive. Mistakes were made and if we all learned something to improve things for the future then we did good. Were coming up on two weeks since the event took place , lets move on. 😊

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4 hours ago, BobMiller said:

14 cars from a 42 car starting field is 1/3. It was raining when they dropped the green. The race should never have been started and resulted in a monster crash 12 laps later. People who were there are saying it rained the entire 12 laps.

The race director realized that they probably shouldn't have started the race and tried to rectify that by allowing teams to repair cars to continue. Doing so without penalty was a commendable gesture. 

You say the race director didn't do his job, but he did. If the grand high supreme being didn't like that call, he should have stopped the teams from making repairs immediately. HE is the one who didn't do his job.

In defense of ocfs it would have been crazy not to start the race.  The term 'raining' at the beginning of the race is a big stretch.  I literally felt one sprinkle per minute when the green flag dropped.  Literally,  1 tiny drop and the guy next to me didn't even believe me until he felt one about a minute later.  I was in the drive in section so I had nothing around me or on top of me for several hundred feet.  Point is,  is that if there was rain,  people in the drive in would be the first to feel it. 

Then,  it started pouring. I guess you could say a yellow or red could have came out sooner but that point has been argued enough. 

Bob,  I know you're a big advocate that tracks and fans should go forward regardless of the weather and not be fair weather fans.  Your story about the time it was raining in every section of canandaigua except directly over the track seems to stick in my mind. 

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21 minutes ago, inthecuse said:

In defense of ocfs it would have been crazy not to start the race.  The term 'raining' at the beginning of the race is a big stretch.  I literally felt one sprinkle per minute when the green flag dropped.  Literally,  1 tiny drop and the guy next to me didn't even believe me until he felt one about a minute later.  I was in the drive in section so I had nothing around me or on top of me for several hundred feet.  Point is,  is that if there was rain,  people in the drive in would be the first to feel it. 

Then,  it started pouring. I guess you could say a yellow or red could have came out sooner but that point has been argued enough. 

Bob,  I know you're a big advocate that tracks and fans should go forward regardless of the weather and not be fair weather fans.  Your story about the time it was raining in every section of canandaigua except directly over the track seems to stick in my mind. 

I was in the half-covered grandstand, and it was NOT raining when the green flag dropped.  

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I beg to differ rooster, I’ve had conversations with four different drivers who were on the track and they stated In was definitely sprinkling/raining before the green. Never been there never will , just gets the blood boiling to get a race started at the possible expense of drivers safety 

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9 hours ago, GasketCase said:

Matt did specifically state that Larry was one of the people he thought was screwed. 

 

I watched the video again, and you're right:  In between Matt's 120-decibel expletives you can hear him say "Even my little buddy Larry got screwed, you know, the guy I body slammed while pulling him out of his car a while back?"  LOL  

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22 minutes ago, DaRooster said:

I was in the half-covered grandstand, and it was NOT raining when the green flag dropped.  

Really? Because in Mandee Pauch's Centennial Weekend Day No.3 video on YouTube you can see rain drops as they are coming off turn 4 taking the green flag. They may not have been heavy rain drops but it definitely shows rain drops

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1 hour ago, racermurray said:

Dale , I know your trying to defend your brother but responding with sarcasm and belittling other people on this forum is neither positive or productive. Mistakes were made and if we all learned something to improve things for the future then we did good. Were coming up on two weeks since the event took place , lets move on. 😊

Sarcasm mixed with facts .... I plead guilty. I’m more than willing to move on. I thought it was strange that Bob Miller picked up the torch but it makes sense now once I understood he wasn’t at the track. I’ll let that dead horse remain in it’s nailed coffin. That’s unless a Grand High Supreme Administrator wants to dig up its dead carcass one more time. (That’s sarcasm) Take care, Dale Larsen

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I dont care alot about what happened or who's fault it may have been but I'll say one thing....I'd bet my house that had certain cars been involved in the wreck that we would have have seen a clause in the rules where 'it's not fair that mother nature played a part in this once in a lifetime race so we are allowing drivers involved in the wreck to work on their cars and keep their position'. It could be spun any way you want depending who was involved. And dont think for a minute it doesnt matter that its Matt and his odds of winning. Same as it matters that hes not allowed at Fulton for $20,000 to win. Cause theres a 50/50 chance he wins. 

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I am wondering who made the call to give Friesen his spot back after the yellow was thrown for him. When the race director was overruled on the rain incident because that is in the rulebook about going to the rear if you work on your car then Friesen should of also been sent to the rear when the yellow was thrown for him. Mother nature was to blame on one wreck and Friesen was to blame on the other.

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9 minutes ago, RubbinsRacin said:

I am wondering who made the call to give Friesen his spot back after the yellow was thrown for him. When the race director was overruled on the rain incident because that is in the rulebook about going to the rear if you work on your car then Friesen should of also been sent to the rear when the yellow was thrown for him. Mother nature was to blame on one wreck and Friesen was to blame on the other.

They're pretty quiet on what happened there other than to say the yellow actually hurt Stews chances of winning. Huh?

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After the piss-poor way the controversies were handled there, they set a precedent that certainly will be repeated @ a couple of race tracks near Syracuse that are owned by the same person. I wonder how long before rule changes will be enacted in the middle of a race or tech if it involves certain racers @ those two tracks????? 

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47 minutes ago, RubbinsRacin said:

I am wondering who made the call to give Friesen his spot back after the yellow was thrown for him. When the race director was overruled on the rain incident because that is in the rulebook about going to the rear if you work on your car then Friesen should of also been sent to the rear when the yellow was thrown for him. Mother nature was to blame on one wreck and Friesen was to blame on the other.

In fairness while I personally thought the yellow was a bit quick, Friesen did maintain his position, no body passed him hell  I dont think anyone even got up to his bumper. He straightened out the car and kept going. It happened right in front of me   

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1 minute ago, sm24j said:

In fairness while I personally thought the yellow was a bit quick, Friesen did maintain his position, no body passed him hell  I dont think anyone even got up to his bumper. He straightened out the car and kept going. It happened right in front of me   

So you are saying the track made a mistake so they made it right for a driver just like they made a mistake with the rain and when the race director tried to overule the rulebook he wasnt allowed to. You cant have it one way and not the other.

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