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Two simple questions for race director of SDW

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4 minutes ago, westracing01 said:

Bump the distance to 250 laps, all laps count (green and caution) up to lap 175, last 75 laps have to go green. You cannot lose a lap in the pits under yellow. Done. Pit road is safer and they can take all day to get the lineup right.

200 laps is already long enough. The last thing we need to do is drag this thing out more

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10 hours ago, leroy said:

Why? is the question.  Because pit road is closed.

Oswego is no smaller than the rest of the SDS race tracks. And teams pit at those races with less issue

Dirtcar does not care if drivers are lined up correctly for those stops?     A stop is a stop

I am curious as to how you plan to get rid of pit stops.  Live or whatever you want to call them

A "LIVE" pit stop really does require all of the cars to be in the proper order and in line to be fair to everyone, because the exit order matters more.  Like NASCAR.  

Dirt track style "non-live" stops it really doesn't matter who is where when the pits open, because you're going to the back and you're only pitting to fix damage or a flat, not to refuel.  

 

I'm a big proponent of the halfway break for these kinds of races instead of doing the live stops.  And you can mix the rules up a little for some extra drama.  If a team wants to pull off a live pit stop under caution before he halfway break, go for it.....and then as long as you leave your car on the track and don't touch it you can start up front after the break.  

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If you don't have live pitstops and instead go for the mid-race break for refueling, it doesn't matter if everyone is in exact order because only a handful of cars will be pitting at any given time (to repair damage/change tires as a result of crash damage.

I like the Fonda 200 rule -- at break, stop the cars on the track. Crews can refuel only, no tire changes. If you want to change tires, you have to pit and go to the rear. It does put some strategy in, but keeps the pits a lot safer and you don't need as many crewmen.

And you don't need to spend 4+ laps every single caution getting everyone in line.

GC got it right, the more we get away from NASCAR's way of doing things, the better off we are. We'd be better served looking at how Late Models and Sprint cars handle these kinds of things because that's a lot closer to our type of racing. I don't see hardly anybody on Hoseheads whining about how the Knoxville Nationals is ruined because of a half-way fuel stop. Last time I checked, that was a pretty successful race. Run at night even.

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27 minutes ago, luke81 said:

A "LIVE" pit stop really does require all of the cars to be in the proper order and in line to be fair to everyone, because the exit order matters more.  Like NASCAR.  

Dirt track style "non-live" stops it really doesn't matter who is where when the pits open, because you're going to the back and you're only pitting to fix damage or a flat, not to refuel.  

 

I'm a big proponent of the halfway break for these kinds of races instead of doing the live stops.  And you can mix the rules up a little for some extra drama.  If a team wants to pull off a live pit stop under caution before he halfway break, go for it.....and then as long as you leave your car on the track and don't touch it you can start up front after the break.  

That does not answer the question as to what is the difference between a LIVE stop and a not live stop.   It seems to me that the the only difference is that the LIVE pit is in the infield and you have to ride around a few laps and wait for the pits to open. What other difference is there?  

Why not just run the race 200 laps. But run under the same pit rules as they do a  SDS 100 lap race.  Head to the pits IF you want WHEN you want.  How hard would this be?   They do it the rest of the year. Sometimes on tracks a lot smaller than Oswego

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15 hours ago, BillSmith said:

Quit counting caution laps. Run the race at night so the track is raceable.

Cut the SuperDIRT race to 150 green flag laps, with a scheduled break at lap 75. (Works for the Outlaw 200 and Knoxville)

Long-distance races should remain LONG-DISTANCE RACES.  Pit stop strategy adds another level of excitement to the race.  First, the Chinese fire drill that ensues is heart-stopping, and secondly, just like second-guessing the coach or manager to leave the pitcher in or to pinch-hit, or to go for three instead of the first down , guessing the best time to stop for fuel and or tires is a large part of the enjoyment.  We've seen some brilliant decisions made by crew chiefs, and some poor ones as well.  NEVER "schedule a break".

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The ASA latemodels used to run 200 lap races at Oswego and used the same (hard to change) wide 5 hubs as the dirt cars do.

They didn't have any problems pitting and the pit stop area on the infield was set up the same way it is now . Pits opened next lap after a yellow and they were back to green flag racing within 3-4 laps. Here we are in 2019 the age of electronics and transponders and it takes 4 laps to put the cars in order before they even open pit row ?

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14 hours ago, 22racingteam said:

2 laps to open the pits and 2-3 laps to let them pit.   I don’t see what more time they need.  Is OCFS on a mile?   Do they run 10-12 laps under yellow for every caution 

If they did, I would not go.............

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Some of you should probably read what Gary Tomkins has said about things to get the perspective from a driver...which might not be what you think.

I'm all for holding the start of the event till 5pm and running the full 200 laps with pit stops as they are...if you can't get the field organized in 2 laps, you AND the drivers need to work harder.  2 laps, lap counter freezes, pits open...still makes pitting strategy count for track position...lead lap cars pit first, laps down second.  Max 5 laps under yellow (only 2 count).  Exception:  First 20 and last 20 pits are closed unless you have flat tire/damage/out of fuel.

The draw of this is that it's supposed to be DIFFERENT than anything else we do...some simple adaptations and adjustments are probably all that's needed.

BTW, if these rules wind up in place for next year, I want my royalty check (LMAO)...

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This forum is working pretty well on a couple different threads regarding Super Dirt Week. A lot of good suggestions and not much negativity. Hope the powers to be read and consider everyone's thoughts.

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19 hours ago, 22racingteam said:

U are right.  Friday NIGHT and Saturday NIGHT the racing was great.   Now what was different on Sunday?   Oh that’s right it wasn’t at NIGHT.   It was in the bright sun shine. 

Thanks Captain Obvious. But that doesn’t explain why someone felt the hole between 3-4 was going to fix itself overnight. All due respect to Gary Tomkins, but if the track prep crew had any pride in their product, (and yes, I believe they did), they would have stayed up all night, drinking all the coffee from Oswego to make that track ready for race time on Sunday. 

Instead, someone made the decision not to prep the track at all. And the track started off as crap! Crap started at 7 PM with no sun or crap started at 2 PM with lots of sun? It’s All Crap Captain Obvious! 

And someone needs to own that pooooop!

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Problem with the hole is nothing will stay in it after it’s torn up. They tried I’m sure they had roller over there but 800hp is gonna keep tearing it out just like Syracuse. Another issue is if the track is torn up too much and water is saturated in it it will probably be a replay of the 1st year. Grading it prior to the 200 might of helped. 

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How deep is the clay? They may be why they didn't do it. 

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35 minutes ago, dan dan said:

How deep is the clay? They may be why they didn't do it. 

Personally looking at the hole in turn 3 afterwards, clay is probably 6-8 inches deep.

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19 minutes ago, JAR1972 said:

Personally looking at the hole in turn 3 afterwards, clay is probably 6-8 inches deep.

That’s about how deep the clay is at most tracks. 

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So, take this year's schedule, move everything up a day, and run the SB race and BB race more toward a night time start. That would leave Sunday for a rain date. 

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On 10/14/2019 at 10:02 PM, gary tomkins said:

41 cars start the race. It is only fair that when the caution comes out that the cars are in the correct position before the pits are open.   Because the race is now run on a 1/2 mile instead of a mile track it will sometimes take more laps to get the line up correct. Believe me it sucks just as much for us drivers and teams as it does for the fans. At least now only 4 laps per caution are counted so there are still a lot of racing laps.

This year was the first year that every day from Wednesday to Sunday there was racing because the weather cooperated except during the day on Saturday. There were 312 cars this year. That's a LOT of laps on a dirt track in a short amount of time. The fact that except for Saturday there was sunshine and a slight breeze also was bad for the track. I know it was after midnight Saturday when racing ended, that doesn't give the track prep crew a lot of time to do a lot to the track. At the end of it all this was probably the worst year for passing cars on Sunday. That made the racing a little cut throat. There were a lot of junk wheels and tires after that race because of guys trying to make something happen. It definitely wasn't our finest hour for sure. It's dirt racing which means conditions aren't always perfect. But if that caution hadn't had come out at the end it might have still been one hell of a finish, as it was Mat Williamson ended up driving away at the green. 

 There was a lot of talk of switching things up and doing more racing at night, which only seems logical as that's when dirt tracks typically run races. I for one think it's time to get away from the mile mindset and fully embrace the 1/2 short track experience!

Couldn't have said it any better Gary!

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Walked the track after the race to check out the hole...  There wasnt much they were going to do to fix it when it started.. and to be honest... It looked wayyyy worse than it was.. it was about 6" deep, down to the asphalt.  Guys were driving right through it without to much issue, but if you were sideways and caught the edge of it, it really upset the cars... as you would expect. 1 hole in 3 years... with a week straight of rain leading up to it... Can we really complain about that?

On the race directing.. there's about 2 dozen wrecked cars on Sunday from the race directors inability to call a yellow... Dave Farney and Wavin Woody arent morons, they do not need to be told "put it out, put it out", Im sure they can handle waving the yellow flag when "Yellow Yellow Yellow" is called... And for christ's sakes tell people where the goddamn yellow is! "Yellow Yellow Yellow, Turn 1"... thats not to much to ask for... CD Beauchamp spun and the entire field except for the top 4 or 5 (he was 5th or 6th when he spun) was past him before the yellow was even called... Completely unacceptable. There were several wrecks where the last guys to pile in should have heard yellow well before they arrived and did not.

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