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HowieTheHat

ARRA Meeting of the Minds

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Members of Auto Racing Research Associates (ARRA) - met up with other racing historians today in Binghamton,NY  for a lunch meeting and to exchange various publications that have been donated to the cause.  Attending the meeting today were, clockwise from bottom left are ARRA member Mike Monnat, ARRA member Thomas Schmeh, historian Dr. Gary George, historian Rollyn Messemer, historian and former Southern Tier modified driver Mark Terry, ARRA Co-Founder Bill Hanna and ARRA Co-Founder Fred Voorhees.

meeting (500 x 375).jpg

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2 hours ago, DaRooster said:

Did you fellows discuss giving Brett Hearn those additional 5 wins that he rightfully earned and owns?

Doesn't meet our criteria...though we acknowledge them.  Not going to bite on your bait sir.

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Just curious: How do the sportsman/358 races at super dirt week count? Originally you had to win a qualifying race (held at various tracks) to get in, then it was win a qualifying race or time trial in, and then one year it was only open to DIRT members (USNA drivers not welcome).

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1 hour ago, By The Book said:

Just curious: How do the sportsman/358 races at super dirt week count? Originally you had to win a qualifying race (held at various tracks) to get in, then it was win a qualifying race or time trial in, and then one year it was only open to DIRT members (USNA drivers not welcome).

BTB...you bring up an interesting part of research that a few of us historians have bantered back and forth about in the past.  I am off my computer right now but I will try to get on tomorrow and dedicate some time to answering you.

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On 10/16/2019 at 6:42 PM, By The Book said:

Just curious: How do the sportsman/358 races at super dirt week count? Originally you had to win a qualifying race (held at various tracks) to get in, then it was win a qualifying race or time trial in, and then one year it was only open to DIRT members (USNA drivers not welcome).

Sorry it took so long to get back to this.  Been very busy with other things.  Trust me...us historians have had our conversations with certain things surrounding DIRT Week and its events.  First of all....the Triple 20's of the past and the Triple 30's of present day Super DIRT Weeks have never and will never count as a feature win.  Pure and simple, they are qualifying events.  Back when they presented an annual Winners Classic...we went back and forth on whether to count them or not...basically because whoever tallies the Brett Hearn win totals counts them.  Our thoughts were and still are that the event was to close to a "novelty" event, but most of all, the event is NOT open to any driver who may choose to compete in it.  However, one could say that it IS open to any competitor because the event was made up of winners of DIRT Week qualifying events held over the course of the season at various tracks (DIRT Series).  So, in effect, any driver could choose to compete in any of those events and in the event of his winning the event, he would then gain entry into the Winners Classic.  So, one could say that the Winners Classic WAS open to any driver.  Believe me...we had extended conversations over this one.  In the end, we decided that it was to far away from a full field feature event and closer to a "novelty" event and thus, chose to not include those wins.

   In the instance you bring up...the 358 and Sportsman main events at DIRT Week...those events are full fields of cars...and for the most part....drivers could show up and try to get into the program.  I wasn't aware that there was a season where USNA drivers could not compete simply because of their competing in USNA events.  Quite honestly, I would think that there would be a law on the books somewhere that would prevent something such as that happening.  Right to Work an such.  I know nothing about that so I won't comment on it.  From the DIRT side of things...we would always count the win as far as DIRT records...simply to coincide with DIRT records.  With the drivers records...we would have to decide upon the circumstances surrounding the event.  

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On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 7:04 PM, HowieTheHat said:

Sorry it took so long to get back to this.  Been very busy with other things.  Trust me...us historians have had our conversations with certain things surrounding DIRT Week and its events.  First of all....the Triple 20's of the past and the Triple 30's of present day Super DIRT Weeks have never and will never count as a feature win.  Pure and simple, they are qualifying events.  Back when they presented an annual Winners Classic...we went back and forth on whether to count them or not...basically because whoever tallies the Brett Hearn win totals counts them.  Our thoughts were and still are that the event was to close to a "novelty" event, but most of all, the event is NOT open to any driver who may choose to compete in it.  However, one could say that it IS open to any competitor because the event was made up of winners of DIRT Week qualifying events held over the course of the season at various tracks (DIRT Series).  So, in effect, any driver could choose to compete in any of those events and in the event of his winning the event, he would then gain entry into the Winners Classic.  So, one could say that the Winners Classic WAS open to any driver.  Believe me...we had extended conversations over this one.  In the end, we decided that it was to far away from a full field feature event and closer to a "novelty" event and thus, chose to not include those wins.

   In the instance you bring up...the 358 and Sportsman main events at DIRT Week...those events are full fields of cars...and for the most part....drivers could show up and try to get into the program.  I wasn't aware that there was a season where USNA drivers could not compete simply because of their competing in USNA events.  Quite honestly, I would think that there would be a law on the books somewhere that would prevent something such as that happening.  Right to Work an such.  I know nothing about that so I won't comment on it.  From the DIRT side of things...we would always count the win as far as DIRT records...simply to coincide with DIRT records.  With the drivers records...we would have to decide upon the circumstances surrounding the event.  

The year was 2000. If you look at the results of the 358 race, you won't see Brett Hearn, Billy Decker, Jimmy Horton, or any of the drivers who supported USNA. Glenn Donnelly made the race eligible only to drivers who were DIRT members, and if you ran races in a competing series you lost your DIRT membership. You will see that Guy Madsen had Dick Larkin run his small block car that year to meet his sponsorship obligations.

I wish I could have seen the steam coming out of Glenn Donnelly's ears when the top 5 of the big block race on Sunday were Billy Decker (USNA), Steve Paine (DIRT), Kenny Brightbill (USNA), Bud Christman (neither), and Steve Bottcher (USNA).

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