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ferg3298

Dirtcar new rule

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Racing = money. Pretty much always has and always will one way or the other. From go carts straight thru F1. 

Having everything reported and stamped or whatever would never work. Unless they plan on checking every piece on car on a regular basis instead of random things week to week like they do now. I can go buy a car, spend my allotment on the best stuff, car sits in the garage and never leaves and my buddy can use different parts as he sees fit. Gets caught with wrong part and well I borrowed it cause I couldn't spend no more. And gets a hand slap, small fine and just goes to a non sanctioned track. 

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1 hour ago, rpm72x said:

Probably the easiest path to large numbers of both is just a 602 sportsman class and a 604 modified class.....let the mods be 2300 lbs sportsman 2400lbs....same rules otherwise. Splits the sportsman in half....75% of mod guys buy 604s....and maybe 25% get out of racing.....there is no solution for everyone. Whether engine builders like it or not, grass roots dirt racing is going crate. 

Now there's something that makes a little sense.  I think it'd be a no-brainer and pretty easy transition for most of the Sportsman guys who already are running pretty top-shelf operations...bump up to a 604, run for a 358 modified purse or at least min $1000 to win.  Many/most would like to go modified racing but even bumping up to 358 is still a huge jump in cost.  I know we would move up to that in a heartbeat.

I still think you'd need a true open motor modified class on top of that but it would at least free up a good bunch of the Sportsman guys to move out.

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1 hour ago, rpm72x said:

The speedstrs are 1 class of car, raced at few racetracks, with relatively low car count considering they have been around for quite awhile. If that was the answer don’t you think they would’ve taken over for modifieds....especially sportsman where there is extreme growth?  There could be a time when the big blocks are gone or combined across the board with other “modified” classes....but there will always be an enormous amount of sportsman cars. Probably the easiest path to large numbers of both is just a 602 sportsman class and a 604 modified class.....let the mods be 2300 lbs sportsman 2400lbs....same rules otherwise. Splits the sportsman in half....75% of mod guys buy 604s....and maybe 25% get out of racing.....there is no solution for everyone. Whether engine builders like it or not, grass roots dirt racing is going crate. 

I hear what you are saying and I understand it.  Whats going to stop a guy from rebuilding that 602 or 604 motor to a 50,000 dollar beast.  Answer me that because nothing will and no one will tech it .  If by some slim chance it is teched the guy who bought it will just do a back door deal with the tech guy and shut his mouth  with money.   Its being done now so whats going to stop it

As far as the Speedstrs go I didn't bring them up somebody else did.  I used them as an example of how to Control Costs and It works.  No I NEVER expected them to take over for Modifieds but the Chassis manfactures can take over all Parts for The modifieds and keep the tally instead of the vendors with serialized parts so you know where they were bought

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On 1/2/2020 at 5:41 PM, Josh Bayko said:

If you knew half of what you think you know, you might actually learn something about modern racing. 

What ?.......modern racing is what ?....It's stupid money in my mind I see Dunn/ Benson have used pit cart for sale cost $25,000 new , gotta have one of those  I see where fastest BB at Devils Bowl , VT  2019 was Hearn 104.548 mph......(MS &SF were also there ) ....Fastest 358  SB also Hearn in 2019 on  same day   103.069 mph ....So it looks like lets say he had w/16 at a cost of $13k new in SB and BB cost near $50k....now that's $35,000  more  +or - to go 1 mile per hr faster......I believe with weight adjustments that SB will match BB speed and I can't see anything negative by doing this .....W/16 has won 2 Super DIRT races against BB so i can't see argument that these sealed motors will not work .....IDK but for $19,500 complete with carb plus $3000. for aluminum block complete LS Wegner 427 Warrior wet system with proper weight breaks could save some teams good money .......I have seen wet system finish 4th in BB at Syracuse (200 laps ) so not going to listen that this will not take the abuse or work at Saturday nite tracks ......Maybe HC will let someone try this BB  427 Wegner with weight breaks.....Why not and like the w/16 made by same people when it wins what are modern racers going to say ?...I would not be surprised if Deyo is first to try it ....he seems to think outside the box with rules and purses.....And Bayko I don't claim to know to much about racing past or present...But I do use calculator to figure cost of doing business once in awhile ......

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1 hour ago, NODOORS said:

I hear what you are saying and I understand it.  Whats going to stop a guy from rebuilding that 602 or 604 motor to a 50,000 dollar beast.  Answer me that because nothing will and no one will tech it .  If by some slim chance it is teched the guy who bought it will just do a back door deal with the tech guy and shut his mouth  with money.   Its being done now so whats going to stop it

As far as the Speedstrs go I didn't bring them up somebody else did.  I used them as an example of how to Control Costs and It works.  No I NEVER expected them to take over for Modifieds but the Chassis manfactures can take over all Parts for The modifieds and keep the tally instead of the vendors with serialized parts so you know where they were bought

The sheer insanity of this idea makes me a bit concerned for your mental health.  So in your world a guy can't swing into Napa on the way to the shop and get a set of spark plugs and some gaskets, he has to order from his assigned chassis manufacturer....LOL this can't be serious.....

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1 hour ago, NODOORS said:

I hear what you are saying and I understand it.  Whats going to stop a guy from rebuilding that 602 or 604 motor to a 50,000 dollar beast.  Answer me that because nothing will and no one will tech it .  If by some slim chance it is teched the guy who bought it will just do a back door deal with the tech guy and shut his mouth  with money.   Its being done now so whats going to stop it

As far as the Speedstrs go I didn't bring them up somebody else did.  I used them as an example of how to Control Costs and It works.  No I NEVER expected them to take over for Modifieds but the Chassis manfactures can take over all Parts for The modifieds and keep the tally instead of the vendors with serialized parts so you know where they were bought

If cheaper options were presented.....if they became popular and were running well.....then tech is where the efforts need to be focused....if your tech official does his job and there still are questions.....there are already rules in place to protest someone.....bring your engine builder and protest them. 

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1 minute ago, luke81 said:

The sheer insanity of this idea makes me a bit concerned for your mental health.  So in your world a guy can't swing into Napa on the way to the shop and get a set of spark plugs and some gaskets, he has to order from his assigned chassis manufacturer....LOL this can't be serious.....

There are many parts on many speedstrs that were bought elsewhere, not everything comes from Tobias. 

 

2 hours ago, matt_s86 said:

Now there's something that makes a little sense.  I think it'd be a no-brainer and pretty easy transition for most of the Sportsman guys who already are running pretty top-shelf operations...bump up to a 604, run for a 358 modified purse or at least min $1000 to win.  Many/most would like to go modified racing but even bumping up to 358 is still a huge jump in cost.  I know we would move up to that in a heartbeat.

I still think you'd need a true open motor modified class on top of that but it would at least free up a good bunch of the Sportsman guys to move out.

There always will be more of a “want” for a true big hp open motor class......many would complain about the 604 being the top engine....many people still bitch that crates ruined the sportsman class, but for the most part those people are now distanced from the sport. I know it sounds bad to say go away to a bunch of guys, but if it ushers in hundreds and hundreds of new people then ok. There will always be places that have open motor classes, maybe some specials, just as there are still a few open motor sportsman classes. Eventually they will all conform or get out. I have always felt the 604 should have been the sportsman engine, but it’s a better option for the mod class and leave the 602 for sportsman, it would separate the class again the correct way, and it close the financial bridge for guys wanting to move up. Pay the full mod purse, in a few years the racing will be more competitive, with far more cars and the world will be right. 

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8 minutes ago, luke81 said:

The sheer insanity of this idea makes me a bit concerned for your mental health.  So in your world a guy can't swing into Napa on the way to the shop and get a set of spark plugs and some gaskets, he has to order from his assigned chassis manufacturer....LOL this can't be serious.....

Wow really -- Im not even going to address this nonsense.  Spark Plugs and Gaskets REALLY???  WOW

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2 minutes ago, NODOORS said:

Wow really -- Im not even going to address this nonsense.  Spark Plugs and Gaskets REALLY???  WOW

Isn't that exactly what you were advocating for?  

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10 minutes ago, rpm72x said:

If cheaper options were presented.....if they became popular and were running well.....then tech is where the efforts need to be focused....if your tech official does his job and there still are questions.....there are already rules in place to protest someone.....bring your engine builder and protest them. 

That argument for tech has been used for many years -- It has failed

 

SpeedStrs and their part MUST be purchased fro Tobias Speed Equip or his dealers no where else and that is the way USAC and Tobias cam to terms

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Just now, NODOORS said:

That argument for tech has been used for many years -- It has failed

 

SpeedStrs and their part MUST be purchased fro Tobias Speed Equip or his dealers no where else and that is the way USAC and Tobias cam to terms

So every tire, wheel, spark plugs, belts, heim ends, exhaust,  shocks, etc all come from Tobias?

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Just now, luke81 said:

Isn't that exactly what you were advocating for?  

NO not at all I am talking about a 3000 dollar motor getting beat by someone want to SPEND a ton of Money for a 50000 Dollar motor My god some people do not understand ack shit

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Just now, rpm72x said:

So every tire, wheel, spark plugs, belts, heim ends, exhaust,  shocks, etc all come from Tobias?

YES Every one

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Just now, NODOORS said:

NO not at all I am talking about a 3000 dollar motor getting beat by someone want to SPEND a ton of Money for a 50000 Dollar motor My god some people do not understand ack shit

So were only keeping track of engines? Mandating a bunch of serial numbers and updates from teams and builders is easier than just teching a cheaper option? So if we’re all allowed 30000 for an engine, and my best friend is a builder, he spends all that money on parts....no labor. You have to pay labor so your parts are half as good....it’s a ludicrous idea.

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1 minute ago, rpm72x said:

So were only keeping track of engines? 

No anything that would give a Competitive advantage that costs a lot of money and make the car faster than the poor guy who can only afford the basic shit.  Do you really think a Spark Plug or a gasket is going to make a car competitive??

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This has to be an intentional troll account. 

There will always be poor people in racing.  I was one, lol.  We raced for tenth every night.  We came to the track knowing that, and we were happy as a clam when we would squeak out a little better than that.  Can't afford to race a modified?  Race a street stock or a 4cyl.  

  

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1 minute ago, NODOORS said:

No anything that would give a Competitive advantage that costs a lot of money and make the car faster than the poor guy who can only afford the basic shit.  Do you really think a Spark Plug or a gasket is going to make a car competitive??

It doesn’t matter, there is no way to monitor half the car.....no way for you to monopolize dirt modified racing into everyone purchasing parts from 3 places....everyone building the exact same engine from a bunch of builders....if you want to race the same cars as everyone else so that apparently every part is the same, go buy a speedstr. 

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4 minutes ago, rpm72x said:

So were only keeping track of engines? Mandating a bunch of serial numbers and updates from teams and builders is easier than just teching a cheaper option? So if we’re all allowed 30000 for an engine, and my best friend is a builder, he spends all that money on parts....no labor. You have to pay labor so your parts are half as good....it’s a ludicrous idea.

Just things that would be like 1000.00 Dollars or more such as a 4 link suspension as opposed to say Torsion Bars or say 35000 dollar shocks (just arbitrary number)

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Just now, rpm72x said:

It doesn’t matter, there is no way to monitor half the car.....no way for you to monopolize dirt modified racing into everyone purchasing parts from 3 places....everyone building the exact same engine from a bunch of builders....if you want to race the same cars as everyone else so that apparently every part is the same, go buy a speedstr. 

So you think its fair that I can drill a Hole close to the spark plug in the head and Increase my CID and when teched the plug is out and it passes put the plug back in and instant HP -- That has been going on for ever and it is still happening

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When I can have a motor built for 80,000 dollars and have the best suspension and the best rear and all titanium hardware carbon fiber body panels and floor titanium drive shaft the best of everything with a suspension and tire package that can handle the HP and weight  and I win every race Im in --- You think thats fair and competitive??  That is where this is going unless someone stops the money and  allows the Back yard mechanic to compete.  

 

This is what we are looking at in the future and the VERY NEAR Future at that

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1 minute ago, NODOORS said:

When I can have a motor built for 80,000 dollars and have the best suspension and the best rear and all titanium hardware carbon fiber body panels and floor titanium drive shaft the best of everything with a suspension and tire package that can handle the HP and weight  and I win every race Im in --- You think thats fair and competitive??  That is where this is going unless someone stops the money and  allows the Back yard mechanic to compete.  

 

This is what we are looking at in the future and the VERY NEAR Future at that

 

Again, he can compete.  In another class if needed.  There have been dominant drivers since the beginning of time.  

 

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1 hour ago, luke81 said:

 

Again, he can compete.  In another class if needed.  There have been dominant drivers since the beginning of time.  

 

And then this sport will never grow and the car counts o down then POOF the track loses and closes up.  I have seen this happe personally and it totally sucks.  I love racing I have built quite a few cars .  I have seen good drivers and good teams say (mod edit) It I cant compete anymore and they sell everything for a loss and quit .  Sprints Midets Mods and Sportsmans I have been doin that since I was 14 years old Im 57 now so I think I have a pretty good perspective on things.

 

Breaks my heart to see what and where this sport I love is going

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