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ferg3298

Dirtcar new rule

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From reading all of this it did make me think of something.  Everyone is talking about all the choices for shocks and motors.  Two things that can drive the cost of racing thru the roof.

Of all things the promoter can dictate, how did we get to the point where the promoters are dictating/ruling what tire manufacturer teams can use and brand of fuel?

Why is DIRT or STSS ok with letting drivers have a choice of shocks, motors, chassis, and whatever else you can think of but they want to control and mandate tires and fuel.

Without getting into the promoter looking at every part or receipt they could probably dictate a lot more of what happens to save costs.  I don't think this is what modified racing should be but if it prevents doomsday then so be it.

But then again I've seen posts that reference the most winningest driver in modified racing who spends less than 30g for his big blocks. So, he must be getting one great deal because of who he is and the other drivers are getting screwed to be who he is.

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Inthecuse,

the tire rule help a smaller team only have to have one brand of tires to carry if they want to run a certain track. It’s a great rule because if not larger teams would have 2 and maybe 3 brands of tires mounted . I think it’s a rule that saved a lot of racers from getting out. 

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8 minutes ago, Eagleonemotorsports said:

Inthecuse,

the tire rule help a smaller team only have to have one brand of tires to carry if they want to run a certain track. It’s a great rule because if not larger teams would have 2 and maybe 3 brands of tires mounted . I think it’s a rule that saved a lot of racers from getting out. 

I figured that's how they got to that point. And I would assume mandating the fuel is to take another cost or tech issue out of the mix.

So why aren't the promoters being more aggressive with clamping down on the motors. Seems to be the biggest problem or most talked about expense.  WRG already honed in on the suspension rules.

 

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34 minutes ago, inthecuse said:

And I would assume mandating the fuel is to take another cost or tech issue out of the mix.

Most fuel rules are tied to sponsorship dollars.  $9-12 per gallon mandated fuel definitely isn't curbing costs in sportsman when we could be running $4 pump gas.

Tires...In DIRTcar the tire rules keep it simple for us.  There's 3 compounds (2 that actually get used all the time) and even the softest compound is pretty hard to begin with.  The price is a bit much ($200 per tire) and I assume that's tied to kickbacks to the sanctioning body.  Open LM tires are much cheaper than our tires.  It's not only DIRT/Hoosier with inflated prices though.  The American Racer tires have $15-$20 tacked on the top of them to pay for the American Racer Cup.

Shocks...I don't think we're in a bad state in the northeast, at least in my experience.  Yes, some teams have a lot of shocks but realistically we could run pretty much anywhere with about 6 shocks.

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50 minutes ago, inthecuse said:

I figured that's how they got to that point. And I would assume mandating the fuel is to take another cost or tech issue out of the mix.

So why aren't the promoters being more aggressive with clamping down on the motors. Seems to be the biggest problem or most talked about expense.  WRG already honed in on the suspension rules.

 

The thinking with suspension rules before engine rules is two pronged:

A: It’s much more affordable to change some suspension pieces than it is to obsolete and replace an engine. 

B: If you can unhook the cars, engine costs tend to come down on their own. 

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It's bad enough that the racers put their hard earned money & their sweat to provide the entertainment that the promoters charge money & sell food & drink to the people who enjoy the entertainment & pay squat back to the racers for their efforts and after all that they make mandatory tires, parts & fuel all the while getting big money from the manufacturers. In my opinion dirt racers need to desperately form their own association along the lines of ESS who have a proven club that is totally successful....use their own officials & tech people to police their members.....experienced racers policing racers...not inexperienced college boys

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23 minutes ago, racer80 said:

It's bad enough that the racers put their hard earned money & their sweat to provide the entertainment that the promoters charge money & sell food & drink to the people who enjoy the entertainment & pay squat back to the racers for their efforts and after all that they make mandatory tires, parts & fuel all the while getting big money from the manufacturers. In my opinion dirt racers need to desperately form their own association along the lines of ESS who have a proven club that is totally successful....use their own officials & tech people to police their members.....experienced racers policing racers...not inexperienced college boys

:punish:

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2 hours ago, racer80 said:

It's bad enough that the racers put their hard earned money & their sweat to provide the entertainment that the promoters charge money & sell food & drink to the people who enjoy the entertainment & pay squat back to the racers for their efforts and after all that they make mandatory tires, parts & fuel all the while getting big money from the manufacturers. In my opinion dirt racers need to desperately form their own association along the lines of ESS who have a proven club that is totally successful....use their own officials & tech people to police their members.....experienced racers policing racers...not inexperienced college boys

This sounds great in theory, but often doesn't work.  I was part of a mini sprint club like this down here.  Because most of the time in this situation the people who run the club are racers in the club, there is always an undercurrent of favoritism.  Sometimes it's real, sometimes its actually not real, but the feeling is always there.  ESS is a rare exception to how this usually works, most of the time it goes down in flames. 

  

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5 hours ago, matt_s86 said:

Most fuel rules are tied to sponsorship dollars.  $9-12 per gallon mandated fuel definitely isn't curbing costs in sportsman when we could be running $4 pump gas.

Tires...In DIRTcar the tire rules keep it simple for us.  There's 3 compounds (2 that actually get used all the time) and even the softest compound is pretty hard to begin with.  The price is a bit much ($200 per tire) and I assume that's tied to kickbacks to the sanctioning body.  Open LM tires are much cheaper than our tires.  It's not only DIRT/Hoosier with inflated prices though.  The American Racer tires have $15-$20 tacked on the top of them to pay for the American Racer Cup.

Shocks...I don't think we're in a bad state in the northeast, at least in my experience.  Yes, some teams have a lot of shocks but realistically we could run pretty much anywhere with about 6 shocks.

Fuel - what's to stop a track like Fulton to say you can run $4/gallon pump gas instead of paying $12/gallon?  Looks like John and WRG aren't getting along anyways.

Tires - yes I can see why you'd want to keep it simple but this philosophy isn't being used across the board. Why simplify tires, fuel, and suspension when the problem is motor costs.  

And if promoters have agreements with fuel and tire companies, they can easily have an agreement with a builder that stipulates drivers using one motor.  I guarantee that if this happened there would be 20 pages on here about how this is going to end racing and the only winners of this are the promoter and the engine builder.

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Tire rules are necessary, fuel rules are a joke, the track or sanctioning body gets money for mandating 1 fuel. There may be 1 fuel sample taken a year and that sample almost never makes it past a desk somewhere at the track. There are bunches of guys running Sunoco at dirtcar tracks that has had dye added to it to match in color.  Suspension rules are overkill in the modified class IMO. Engines need new cheaper options and proper tech, not a mandated builder. Now with that being said, the first engine builder willing to throw a bunch of cash at a promoter, one may try to mandate all engines come from that shop. Today it’s much easier to be a track owner working off of kickbacks rather than pounding the pavement for sponsors and creating a great show. 

 

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6 hours ago, rpm72x said:

Suspension rules are overkill in the modified class IMO. Engines need new cheaper options and proper tech

Check out this recent interview with Mark Richards...the discussion about fixing local racing picks up around the 41 minute mark.  He's advocating for using the CT525 and mixing it in, giving it some advantages and dumbing down the open motors some...a lot like what @rpm72x has been saying.  Good interview:

 
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18 hours ago, inthecuse said:

Fuel - what's to stop a track like Fulton to say you can run $4/gallon pump gas instead of paying $12/gallon?  Looks like John and WRG aren't getting along anyways.

Tires - yes I can see why you'd want to keep it simple but this philosophy isn't being used across the board. Why simplify tires, fuel, and suspension when the problem is motor costs.  

And if promoters have agreements with fuel and tire companies, they can easily have an agreement with a builder that stipulates drivers using one motor.  I guarantee that if this happened there would be 20 pages on here about how this is going to end racing and the only winners of this are the promoter and the engine builder.

 

Because the only winners WOULD be the promoter and the chosen builder.  What you're talking about is essentially the same thing as crate racing, and look at what goes on with that.  I think the IDEA of this is fantastic, but I think the execution would be a mess.  

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On 1/7/2020 at 11:18 AM, racer80 said:

It's bad enough that the racers put their hard earned money & their sweat to provide the entertainment that the promoters charge money & sell food & drink to the people who enjoy the entertainment & pay squat back to the racers for their efforts and after all that they make mandatory tires, parts & fuel all the while getting big money from the manufacturers. In my opinion dirt racers need to desperately form their own association along the lines of ESS who have a proven club that is totally successful....use their own officials & tech people to police their members.....experienced racers policing racers...not inexperienced college boys

You mean the same ESS that wouldn't even give a call back about a $5k to win show?!?!  Sounds like they have the best interest of the teams in mind. Politics at it's finest.......

 

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1 hour ago, Scott Friers said:

You mean the same ESS that wouldn't even give a call back about a $5k to win show?!?!  Sounds like they have the best interest of the teams in mind. Politics at it's finest.......

 

You're right......they pretty much stick to Dirtcar & usually won't with STSS or it's tracks.....I'm not absolutely sure, but I think that is what I think....That doesn't mean they don't have a good program, just that they are particular ????

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1 hour ago, racer80 said:

You're right......they pretty much stick to Dirtcar & usually won't with STSS or it's tracks.....I'm not absolutely sure, but I think that is what I think....That doesn't mean they don't have a good program, just that they are particular ????

They've raced at plenty of tracks in the past that weren't Dirtcar. 

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5 minutes ago, Scott Friers said:

They've raced at plenty of tracks in the past that weren't Dirtcar. 

yes, but not too many that are run by Brett......If I recall correctly I think that the sprints @ Fonda were Patriots or CRSA......bottom line is that there apparently is a feud between WRG & Brett Deyo 

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📢  NEW... DTD... RECORD!

9 whole pages before it became about Fonda!  Lol.  Classic 

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9 minutes ago, racer80 said:

yes, but not too many that are run by Brett......If I recall correctly I think that the sprints @ Fonda were Patriots or CRSA......bottom line is that there apparently is a feud between WRG & Brett Deyo 

What does ESS have to do with anything between wrg and Deyo?

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