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What two modified drivers have raced against each other the most?


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will whether it was when they were both at Orange County or Danny at Canadaigua and Hearn at Lebanon Valley.. they competed head to head on the SDS both BB and SBM. I would think if you added all the races they were both in at the same time. That would be really close to the most. Maybe not the most years, but close to the most races of any two drivers who competed against each other. 

In the late 80s through the 90s I bet Danny and Brett combined won over 50% of the races they were in together.

 

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That’s easy, you said modified... Richie Evans and Jerry Cook.  They raced nonstop back then.  On dirt I don’t know..

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10 hours ago, Dean Reynolds said:

Whole key to the question which really makes it interesting is at one track.  With Can-Am (Sat/Fri.) and Brockville (Thurs/Fri/Sat.) switching nights, the influx of Edelweiss and Mohawk had cars going different directions.  But, Bill as you know, the North Country does have that one common and that was on Sunday night at Cornwall.  You have a good nucleus of guys... Marcel, Ovide, Slip and Laurent that lasted quite a bit of time.  Not sure if Ox or Dahm was that long?? 

The ox was in the mix with those guys for a good while, I'm thinking at least 20yrs..John Dahn was mainly a can am guy. He would come to Cornwall for the big shows

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There are quite a few that come to mind Pauch Sr. against Horton, Sammie Beavers, Glenn Fitzcharles, Stan Ploski Ken Brenn, to name a few.  Also Sammie Beavers against Ploski, Fitzcharles , Brenn and Horton --- Al Tasnady against the same I could go on and on about these battles and I really dont think there is any 1 begotten answer.

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19 hours ago, FightForTheRail said:

Pauch and Horton spent a lot of Friday nights together at East Windsor, but they split up most years on Saturdays with Pauch at Flemington and Horton at Bridgeport. They rarely raced together on Sundays because Pauch was always at Pnn National and Horton was never a regular there.

How do Kenny Brightbill and Frank Cozze fit into the PA/NJ group with Pauch, Horton, CVD, etc? They both have been around a long time.

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This is where I wish I had more time to keep loading older and older results. Maybe someday (please don't hold your breathe) I will be able to get a more definitive answer. But for the data I have I can give you the answer for the last 17 years. 

At one track, Tremont and Heffner at the Valley then Strunk at VonDohren at Grandview. I think the key thing to notice is Lebanon Valley and Orange County with two classes can rack up quite a few races in one season, then the tracks further South tend to have a much longer season. Races per season

For all tracks head to head, that honor moves over to Central New York. As you can see in the image Billy Decker and Pat Ward lead this one with 848 events over the last 17 years, followed by Billy Decker and Matt Sheppard with 817.

Again, I understand that this is only 17 years of the over 50 people are looking at, but it is nice to add some definitive numbers in there.  PS if anyone wants to know a certain combination, you can do it here https://nemodfacts.racestatcentral.com/drivercompare.php

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43 minutes ago, RaceStatCentral said:

This is where I wish I had more time to keep loading older and older results. Maybe someday (please don't hold your breathe) I will be able to get a more definitive answer. But for the data I have I can give you the answer for the last 17 years. 

At one track, Tremont and Heffner at the Valley then Strunk at VonDohren at Grandview. I think the key thing to notice is Lebanon Valley and Orange County with two classes can rack up quite a few races in one season, then the tracks further South tend to have a much longer season. Races per season

For all tracks head to head, that honor moves over to Central New York. As you can see in the image Billy Decker and Pat Ward lead this one with 848 events over the last 17 years, followed by Billy Decker and Matt Sheppard with 817.

Again, I understand that this is only 17 years of the over 50 people are looking at, but it is nice to add some definitive numbers in there.  PS if anyone wants to know a certain combination, you can do it here https://nemodfacts.racestatcentral.com/drivercompare.php

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17 years is better than nothing with our random guessing. This is great! thanks for sharing and thanks for everything you do to track modified history. 

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17 years is no where near enough of a metric, some of the Biggest Rivalries were in the 80s and 90s.  That was when the OLDER Coup Guys and the NEWER Gremlin Pinto Mustang guys were really battling it out  3 sometimes 4 tracks a week So NO it isnt a good metric

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1 hour ago, NODOORS said:

17 years is no where near enough of a metric, some of the Biggest Rivalries were in the 80s and 90s.  That was when the OLDER Coup Guys and the NEWER Gremlin Pinto Mustang guys were really battling it out ant 3 sometimes 4 tracks a week So NO it isnt a good metric

I wasn't saying it was the be all end all answer to the original question.

My point is that having 17 years worth of concrete data rather than guessing over that time in better than nothing is a starting point to the original question. 

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3 minutes ago, WheelsUpHammerDown10 said:

I wasn't saying it was the be all end all answer to the original question.

My point is that having 17 years worth of concrete data rather than guessing over that time in better than nothing is a starting point to the original question. 

Ok Got cha

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That’s some amazing stats, RaceStat ! Thanks for posting them. Like Dean Reynolds mentioned before, I would think if the #’s went back a bit farther, you’d have to throw Ray Swinehart in there against CVD. Both have raced every Saturday against each other at Grandview, every Saturday night for 40 years. Now you take away the “one track” rule and they raced against each other three times a week throughout the 80’s and 90’s at Big Diamond, Grandview, and Penn National.

Thanks again for posting those stats !!

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I think the stats give us a pretty good idea at how astounding the numbers would be if we had 40 years of information.

And I think it would bring up some really interesting results. Especially I still really want to know the numbers between Danny and Brett which I think was one of the greatest rivalries in racing.

Hell they even raced bar stools against each other.

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On 6/11/2020 at 11:53 AM, Dean Reynolds said:

Whole key to the question which really makes it interesting is at one track.  With Can-Am (Sat/Fri.) and Brockville (Thurs/Fri/Sat.) switching nights, the influx of Edelweiss and Mohawk had cars going different directions.  But, Bill as you know, the North Country does have that one common and that was on Sunday night at Cornwall.  You have a good nucleus of guys... Marcel, Ovide, Slip and Laurent that lasted quite a bit of time.  Not sure if Ox or Dahm was that long?? 

The Ovide vs Heaslip rivalry was pretty consistent as I believe they mostly ran the same tracks all along.

I know Ovide started in 1958 or 1959 (1998 was his 40th anniversary year, he retired that year)

Dave retired in 2008 or 2009, shortly after his 50th anniversary season.

My memory firmly really only goes back to 1975 (I remember Ovide dominating Fort Covington in 1972-1974, but I don't remember if Heaslip was there, I was only 4-6 years old). My thoughts below I think are accurate in general but may not be 100% accurate due to how long ago it all happened and I was away from the area from 87 until the late 90s due to college and then living in Northeast PA (but I did follow along via Gater and got to come up home a couple of times a year):

But I know from 1975 to the mid-80s, Ovide vs Dave were three nights a week (Brockville, Can-Am, Cornwall) and a couple of seasons on the pavement at Capital City. (Ovide was away for a couple of years in the late 70s). Ox was one of the guys to beat, as were Carl Murdock and Tony Corcoran. Never a lot of cars -- barely 15-20 a lot of nights at Cornwall and Brockville, but a really evenly matched bunch. The Hammer came on strong in the late 70s. John Dahm and Ricky Wilson didn't run Cornwall much, but they were tough at Brockville (and I think Can-Am). Ronnie White was one of the big guns through the early 80s. George Herbison, Bobby Mackison and Barry Poitras also ran the whole circuit.

Mark Hitchcock was one of the first of the "new generation" of racers I remember coming on and doing really well against the established veterans (I was a big fan of Mark in the 80s at Cornwall -- he was a kid then and you could tell he was driving his ass off every lap even if he didn't have the best equipment the first couple of years). 

Cornwall was always interesting because it always had an influx of Quebec drivers that didn't go to Brockville and Can-Am much. Frogtown and Can-Am ran the same night but still both tracks had plenty of cars (Can-Am always seemed to pick up a few cars from Central NY and Watertown and Kingston were both hotbeds of racing; Frogtown benefitted from Airborne going pavement and picked up a dozen cars from Plattsburgh/Vermont, and that trend last over a decade as the Modified guys simply didn't want to go pavement and run for Tom Curley, who told the NY guys, "I don't need you" at the first meeting after he acquired the track. His loss.)

When Frogtown opened, I believe both Heaslip and Ovide gravitated to Frogtown right off -- I know by the mid-90s they were both Frogtown regulars.

As for the Ox, he also did the mid-70s 3 nights a week deal and was one of the best. He also eventually went to Frogtown in the late 80s/early 90s.

The O'Brien brothers bounced back and forth between Can-Am and Frogtown but were "guys to beat" either place. 

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I agree on the PA Tri-Track rivalry : Craig Von Dohren, Jeff Strunk and off and on Duane Howard have been big rivals over at least 30 years.

(One wonders what would have happened if Rahmer had stayed in Modifieds instead of going into the death-wish machines.)

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On 6/12/2020 at 10:57 AM, Jeff_12afan said:

How do Kenny Brightbill and Frank Cozze fit into the PA/NJ group with Pauch, Horton, CVD, etc? They both have been around a long time.

They fit in quite well In Fact Frank Cozze lived like 8 miles from Flemington Speedway and had Cozze's junk yard in Pittstown NJ.  They built a replica Track the exact same dimensions as Flemington on their property so the Cozze Boys could practice back in the early 80's so YAE they were always there with the Flemington regulars.  Man Flemington had some real talent back then.  HMMMMM Go figure Brett Hearn stayed away from Flemington like the plague.  Wonder Why?? LOL

 

Brightbill was there quite a bit but I dont remember him being a total regular at Flemington

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May be a little late to enter this discussion, And they are not "big stars",  but they have won their fair share of races. How about these two old timers for us old time fans...…. Richie Eurich  and Bill Wilson at OCFS. I think they both started in the late 60's and until a few years ago, raced every Saturday night. Wilson retired a couple years ago, but Eurich is still at it.

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On 6/12/2020 at 4:23 PM, Uncle tom said:

That’s some amazing stats, RaceStat ! Thanks for posting them. Like Dean Reynolds mentioned before, I would think if the #’s went back a bit farther, you’d have to throw Ray Swinehart in there against CVD. Both have raced every Saturday against each other at Grandview, every Saturday night for 40 years. Now you take away the “one track” rule and they raced against each other three times a week throughout the 80’s and 90’s at Big Diamond, Grandview, and Penn National.

Thanks again for posting those stats !!

VonDohren left Grandview for a few years in the mid to late 90's. He spent time at both Bridgeport and Susquehanna during those years.

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On 6/13/2020 at 6:02 PM, Bob Krummel said:

May be a little late to enter this discussion, And they are not "big stars",  but they have won their fair share of races. How about these two old timers for us old time fans...…. Richie Eurich  and Bill Wilson at OCFS. I think they both started in the late 60's and until a few years ago, raced every Saturday night. Wilson retired a couple years ago, but Eurich is still at it.

Good one Bob, with Eurich still active and been a mainstay at OCFS since at least early 70's, (could have been 60's) any driver that has 20 or 30 years there would be a good fit.  I had Heotzler off the top of my head, but Wilson is a very good mention. 

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On 6/16/2020 at 1:55 AM, Dean Reynolds said:

Good one Bob, with Eurich still active and been a mainstay at OCFS since at least early 70's, (could have been 60's) any driver that has 20 or 30 years there would be a good fit.  I had Heotzler off the top of my head, but Wilson is a very good mention. 

1967 was the year Rich started racing.

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