2021 Super DIRTcar Series Schedule Announced

[dirt-in-my-beer 574]

19 hours ago, Rebob0510 said:

Here is my Draw story, About 6 years ago I went to thunder mountain with Billy Decker for a Draw type race, I cant remember what the exact race was but I got to have the awesome job of drawing. I drew him 99 out of 100 and the walk back to the trailer sucked because I knew a bad draw here was going to be tough because then it was very tough to pass early on. We started last, Didnt qualify through the heat, missed it in the consi and were leaded up before the feature started. Now had I drawn 1 and he started on the pole the rest of your night is easy. From that point on I hated draw races. How is it fair to determine your starting spot based off luck? I have also seen a slow back marker draw up front and wreck the field. I know it sucks for fans to watch.... kind of like racing on a slippery dry track. Fans like the hammer down stuff because the cars are fast and things get wild, They also dont have a dime invested or a hour invested fixing or repairing anything also

Least you weren't asked to draw after that time

[Rebob0510 193]

46 minutes ago, dirt-in-my-beer said:

Least you weren't asked to draw after that time

Haha I wish you were right but I usually still get stuck with that job if I am with them at a race. I like driving the car to pre race tech.... now thats a fun job LOL

[scottnorwood 494]

4 minutes ago, Rebob0510 said:

Haha I wish you were right but I usually still get stuck with that job if I am with them at a race. I like driving the car to pre race tech.... now thats a fun job LOL

I used to do that at syracuse...they would tow you back in off the cinder track. The only reason I got the job is because nobody else could fit in Billy's seat...lol

[Josh Bayko 1,731]

On 12/30/2020 at 3:06 PM, JohnyC said:

Wouldn’t this same theory hold true for time trials? If you time first the track is most likely going to range from different to dramatically different to the surface that somebody time trialing 60th might expect to see? 
 

 

That’s why everybody does group time trials. 

[chas71 978]

On 12/30/2020 at 3:19 PM, JohnyC said:

I also just read the state is allowing 6,700 fans for the Bills playoff game so hope for stadiums at 50-75% capacity is on the horizon. 

6700 would be  less than 10% of capacity (71,870)

[chas71 978]

22 hours ago, Rebob0510 said:

Here is my Draw story, About 6 years ago I went to thunder mountain with Billy Decker for a Draw type race, I cant remember what the exact race was but I got to have the awesome job of drawing. I drew him 99 out of 100 and the walk back to the trailer sucked because I knew a bad draw here was going to be tough because then it was very tough to pass early on. We started last, Didnt qualify through the heat, missed it in the consi and were leaded up before the feature started. Now had I drawn 1 and he started on the pole the rest of your night is easy. From that point on I hated draw races. How is it fair to determine your starting spot based off luck? I have also seen a slow back marker draw up front and wreck the field. I know it sucks for fans to watch.... kind of like racing on a slippery dry track. Fans like the hammer down stuff because the cars are fast and things get wild, They also dont have a dime invested or a hour invested fixing or repairing anything also

So, let's try to find a compromise. Time Trials with some type of invert.

[premiumdiesel 300]

do away with time trials draw numbers as you arrive race your heat and do a top 12 redraw. give some sort of drama to the event. 

[JohnyC 771]

3 hours ago, chas71 said:

6700 would be  less than 10% of capacity (71,870)

Yes thank you I understand that. My point is the door is opening and hopefully by next summer/fall we are back in a landscape in which stadiums are filled to 50-75% capacity. 

[JohnyC 771]

On 12/30/2020 at 7:30 PM, leroy said:

To say that race fans do not have a dime invested and or their time is wrong.

I suppose racing could still survive without fans sitting in seats.  It did so many places in 2020.

 Personally , I actually do not mind watching cars time trial one at a time.  I like being able to hear the cars and see when and where different drivers gas it or let off.   Group time trials I do not enjoy so much though.  It think I am watching hot laps

I think some tracks and by extension some forms of racing could survive with no fans, but I’d be willing to bet the vast majority of tracks would perish. 

[scottnorwood 494]

USAC awards passing points in heats and I think that is one way to compromise.

[jumper12a 1,641]

1 hour ago, scottnorwood said:

USAC awards passing points in heats and I think that is one way to compromise.

USAC does not use a passing points format. They use TT’s.

[scottnorwood 494]

5 minutes ago, jumper12a said:

USAC does not use a passing points format. They use TT’s.

USAC does for .25 midgets.

[scottnorwood 494]

10 minutes ago, jumper12a said:

USAC does not use a passing points format. They use TT’s.

Not that most people would think .25 midgets when I said USAC...so I understand what you are saying.

I found the passing points to be pretty fair. I wouldn't mind starting in the back if I get credit for positioned gained.

[Mike Coleates 1,208]

Patriot Sprint Tour does passing points. 

[Josh Bayko 1,731]

14 hours ago, chas71 said:

So, let's try to find a compromise. Time Trials with some type of invert.

Eldora has been doing that for years. Fast time spins the invert wheel. The Lucas series used to use the same format, but changed to straight up all the way through the program about ten years ago because the drivers asked them to. They do currently use the double heat/passing point format  at I80 Nationals and the North/South and their drivers are starting to whine about it again. 

[Sicklajoie 404]

Passing points suck, too. You draw the front row you're basically screwed no matter what you do.

[Josh Bayko 1,731]

Just now, Sicklajoie said:

Passing points suck, too. You draw the front row you're basically screwed no matter what you do.

That’s theory behind the dual heat setup. The second set of heats is a complete invert of the first set. 

[jumper12a 1,641]

11 hours ago, scottnorwood said:

USAC does for .25 midgets.

Gotcha! I know they have the .25 series, but I don’t see it much.

[jumper12a 1,641]

ASCS & POWRi both use passing points. I personally am a big fan of the passing points format. Especially if they use the double heats format. If you use double heats and completely swap each heat for the second round, everyone gets the same opportunities. If you are on the pole for your first heat, you would be last in your second one. ASCS uses a heats/qualifier format. Depending on car counts, they’ll determine how many heats with a pill draw for heat lu’s. Then the top (usually 40, again depending upon car count) so many in points will make up the qualifiers (10 cars in each). The qualifiers invert the top 6 based off the heat points. If you were the high point man after all heats are completed, you would start 6th in the first qualifier. After qualifiers are completed, the highest point earner will start on the pole in the A. Usually the top 16 in earned passing points after the heats & qualifiers will be the first 16 in the A. The rest come from the B’s. This is the format used at the Chili Bowl, and it has created the best racing I’ll see anywhere on the planet each and every year. If I ever promoted my own modified race, I personally would do the double heat format. Something different & unique in the modified world. I know Brett Deyo used passing points a couple times, but he didn’t do it correctly. His mistake was using points and our normal, so many transfer from each heat, together. That’s too confusing, especially for those who aren’t accustomed to passing points. He should have stuck strictly with passing points alone. If it’s used enough, like anything in life, you’ll figure it out and understand it.

[jumper12a 1,641]

27 minutes ago, Sicklajoie said:

Passing points suck, too. You draw the front row you're basically screwed no matter what you do.

Tell that to Kyle Larson. He started on the pole of his heat during his qualifying night during last January’s Chili Bowl. He still ended up with enough points by nights end, after the heats & qualifiers, to start on the front row of his feature. In which he won. In which propelled him to starting up front for the Saturday Championship 55 lap feature. In which he later won. It’s not all doom & gloom if you are good enough.

[Sicklajoie 404]

1 minute ago, jumper12a said:

Tell that to Kyle Larson. He started on the pole of his heat during his qualifying night during last January’s Chili Bowl. He still ended up with enough points by nights end, after the heats & qualifiers, to start on the front row of his feature. In which he won. In which propelled him to starting up front for the Saturday Championship 55 lap feature. In which he later won. It’s not all doom & gloom if you are good enough.

They use passing points in a couple asphalt modified series over my way. It's just single heats and that's it.

[jumper12a 1,641]

6 hours ago, Sicklajoie said:

They use passing points in a couple asphalt modified series over my way. It's just single heats and that's it.

Single heats without qualifiers or a second round of heats is tough. You still have the incentive of the, must always go forward, but it’s fair for all if you have another chance after the first heat.