Jump to content




Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, racer80 said:

Unless they remove & weigh the crank I don't see how they can deem a motor legal

Please explain to me why you would lighten the crankshaft if there is absolutely no advantage according to a dyno? Not to mention a few pounds off of a crankshaft….even in a full blown race engine isn’t the be all end all. If your building a small block….and you have limited funds….the cylinder heads/intake  are far more important than a super lightweight bottom end. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a FYI a crate engine will never turn 9000rpm, the weak link is the valve spring. If you have ever seen a crate on a dyno at about 6200 rpm a stock GM valve spring will allow the valves to float and it sounds like the engine is hitting the rev limiter when in all actual reality the engine is going though chaos. A PAC valve spring which is a higher quality spring will go about 6500-6600 before the valves float. I dont care of you have titanium crank, titanium rods and 3d printed plastic pistons with that stock valve spring you are never going to turn a 602 crate 9000rpm lol 

Rob Hile 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Rebob0510 said:

Just a FYI a crate engine will never turn 9000rpm, the weak link is the valve spring. If you have ever seen a crate on a dyno at about 6200 rpm a stock GM valve spring will allow the valves to float and it sounds like the engine is hitting the rev limiter when in all actual reality the engine is going though chaos. A PAC valve spring which is a higher quality spring will go about 6500-6600 before the valves float. I dont care of you have titanium crank, titanium rods and 3d printed plastic pistons with that stock valve spring you are never going to turn a 602 crate 9000rpm lol 

Rob Hile 

Exactly…..and this thought that removing weight from the crankshaft is going to turn your crate into a world beater that dynoes the exact same as a stock 602 is crazy as well. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, 4wheelin said:

How about just giving them two options for gears to run, wouldn’t that eliminate the cheating the engine portion of it?

You then have to drop the rearend cover weekly to check what gears are in the car. The tech guy has to be able to calculate if it is a 4:11 / 4:86 / 4:56 ring and pinion as well. That’s not only a pain in the ass and hot to work with after a feature, but can be expensive if a guy running 1 night a week decides not to change gears nightly. I worked on a racecar for a few years that ran 1 night a week, the driver ran the same gears all night and we would change gear oil every 3rd week with synthetic. At 150-200 bucks a 5 gallon pal of gear lube, checking gears nightly, possibly more than 1 time a night would get costly. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rpm72x said:

You then have to drop the rearend cover weekly to check what gears are in the car. The tech guy has to be able to calculate if it is a 4:11 / 4:86 / 4:56 ring and pinion as well. That’s not only a pain in the ass and hot to work with after a feature, but can be expensive if a guy running 1 night a week decides not to change gears nightly. I worked on a racecar for a few years that ran 1 night a week, the driver ran the same gears all night and we would change gear oil every 3rd week with synthetic. At 150-200 bucks a 5 gallon pal of gear lube, checking gears nightly, possibly more than 1 time a night would get costly. 

Synthetic can be re-used if captured correctly (clean container , no contamination)  Much easier and far less costly than an engine tear down .

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Rpm, first of all I said I'm not a genius, but I have been around racecars and engines long enough to know you ain't turning that 9000. Nor did I say he did, with my level of stupidity on this forum I failed to word it differently for some peoples reading comprehension. I said you would notice a difference. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, dan dan said:

Rpm, first of all I said I'm not a genius, but I have been around racecars and engines long enough to know you ain't turning that 9000. Nor did I say he did, with my level of stupidity on this forum I failed to word it differently for some peoples reading comprehension. I said you would notice a difference. 

You would notice a difference in what? 9000 and 6000? Absolutely. 6000 and 6300 probably not. Actually absolutely not. The only way he was going to tell that the box was not working was not hitting the chip at the end of the straightaway. Lots of things can factor into that. Every racecar at every dirt track in the country can use the exact same set of gears weekly and almost every week they will turn a different rpm. Track conditions, car set up, traffic, lane choice all matter for that small of a variation on the tach. But this thought that Matt runs the box at 9000 so he can twist the motor harder and pass 5 guys a lap is ludicrous. He would have been caught by now. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, racermurray said:

Synthetic can be re-used if captured correctly (clean container , no contamination)  Much easier and far less costly than an engine tear down .

Synthetic gear lube normally gets reused from heat to feature and at most a few weeks. You cannot filter all of the fine material that comes from every rearend when draining so eventually you are going to replace it. The dyno testing that they do (if you trust the place running the dyno) eliminates the need to tear down an engine. The new style msd boxes used in sportsman are the easiest thing teched nightly and the last place a guy is going to cheat deliberately.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Can anyone that believes setting the rev limiter at 9000 is the key to Matt’s success tell me why 9000? Why not 7200? 7000? Anyone with half a brain knows that this particular engine with the cheap camshaft, cheap valve springs and stamped steel rockers will blow the hood off the car if constantly turned those RPMs….so where is the advantage to 9000? Hoping the tech guy looks at it backwards and thinks it’s 6000? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Rice rocket, 4 banger VTec's are probably revving those things to 9 grand..lol. I have LS1 powerplants in my Trans Am's, they redline at 6300, so yeah no-one is red lining those to 9k. I am out of the loop on these crates, what engine are they?

Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Pinesol said:

Rice rocket, 4 banger VTec's are probably revving those things to 9 grand..lol. I have LS1 powerplants in my Trans Am's, they redline at 6300, so yeah no-one is red lining those to 9k. I am out of the loop on these crates, what engine are they?

Basically a 1995 Silverado with a 5.7. They are not completely junk….they are a 3500 engine that builds 350 hp. Are they a race engine….no. But they are affordable enough that most anyone can buy a new one. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Darrell Welty said:

Maybe he has a dyslexic crewman.  

That’s a more reasonable explanation than thinking he deliberately set it at 9000.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Darrell Welty said:

Maybe he has a dyslexic crewman.  

Wouldn't they have set it at 0009? I can't see him winning with that setting................

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/12/2021 at 1:52 PM, 4wheelin said:

Notice his heat and feature results at Fulton. No more passing 3 cars at a time in the straights

Well this part Is interesting indeed. 
 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Danny said:

Well this part Is interesting indeed. 
 

 

He wasn’t overly good at Fulton the week before either, but won Utica. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's ok now he is only turning 8999 rpms.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, montess said:

I see Janczuk won Utica tonight. Must be no issues going forward. 

I’m sure Mr D smoothed things over with him. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RJO said:

I’m sure Mr D smoothed things over with him. 

Well it says that 602 has max HP @ 5500 rpm so on dyno after that you lose HP If you watch chassis lift you can see how he drives different than some of others in that class Take rev limiter out and I don't think he would turn anymore rpm than he is now weekly He is good driver with good style on track and runs a TEO while most run Bicknell 

  • Confused 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Many of the sportsman drivers seem to drive now-a-days like they do on iRacing and rFactor 2.  Meaning they don't let off, even as the track get's slicker they seem to drive harder. Which of course works against them. TMac once said the problem with Sportsman 602's is they don't learn throttle control. The ones who do master it seem like they have more horse power, when in reality they just have much better traction.  I'm sure everyone remembers Rocky's dominance of the Sportsman division. At OCFS ESW I swore he was cheating.. He could pull away any time he wanted, he was toying with the front runners. Let them catch up and then just drive away from them. I'm sure Jake gave him pointers on throttle control. And now Rocky is competitive any where he runs and whatever modified he is in. The ones who work hard and work on their skills seem to move up to the Modifieds with only needing a small learning curve. Others move up and go from winning in the sportsman to back markers in the modifieds. 

Your Friend,

Mr. Obvious

Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Jack Brady said:

Many of the sportsman drivers seem to drive now-a-days like they do on iRacing and rFactor 2.  Meaning they don't let off, even as the track get's slicker they seem to drive harder. Which of course works against them. TMac once said the problem with Sportsman 602's is they don't learn throttle control. The ones who do master it seem like they have more horse power, when in reality they just have much better traction.  I'm sure everyone remembers Rocky's dominance of the Sportsman division. At OCFS ESW I swore he was cheating.. He could pull away any time he wanted, he was toying with the front runners. Let them catch up and then just drive away from them. I'm sure Jake gave him pointers on throttle control. And now Rocky is competitive any where he runs and whatever modified he is in. The ones who work hard and work on their skills seem to move up to the Modifieds with only needing a small learning curve. Others move up and go from winning in the sportsman to back markers in the modifieds. 

Your Friend,

Mr. Obvious

We run a class that is pretty much wide open all the way around the track if your driver is experienced and has the ability to have decent car control. The trick for us is getting the gearing and setup to the point where the engine is running in the correct section of the torque curve at the right sections of the track. Not so much so the car sets fast time but so that the car can overtake.

I review the dyno sheet and then see how much the dyno sheet matches what my son says, his performance against others on track, and the stop watch.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, old racer said:

Well it says that 602 has max HP @ 5500 rpm so on dyno after that you lose HP If you watch chassis lift you can see how he drives different than some of others in that class Take rev limiter out and I don't think he would turn anymore rpm than he is now weekly He is good driver with good style on track and runs a TEO while most run Bicknell 

He’s got a ton of experience and is a good driver. He’s got good equipment and if he brings the Bicknell back out, he will win even more.  He’s not cheating to win. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/10/2021 at 10:54 PM, WMR Racing said:

 If anyone has been around a rev box a clump of mud or a rock can move the dials.  Same thing happened to Kevin Root at devils bowl last year. 

Not so sure about mud or a rock. 

 

20200913_125237.thumb.jpg.7b61ca3e6b3a4afb6dfdf4e711a8eda1.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.














×
×
  • Create New...