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  1. How are less eyeballs on the product, good for growing the sport? Have we learned nothing from this whole streaming video debate? ”Sorry fan who can’t drive 2-3 hours away, on a week night no less, you can’t tune in to our product and stay engaged. If you’re not going to watch our race AND buy our hot dogs, piss off.” Was this copy/pasted from the Hard Clay Observer? Good grief.
    12 points
  2. Not just at the tracks. I remember going to places that sponsored cars with my dad in the early to mid 90s, and they would have their driver and car and some pictures at the business. Wheels Auto Parts was one that stuck out in particular. My dad would always shoot the breeze with the drivers and as a kid it was nice to get a close up look at the cars. They’d have some pictures and maybe a discount pass to their sponsors night at the track. It got race fans out to the business and maybe spend money and it introduced people visiting the business to racing. Seemed like there was a lot of that in the 90’s. A related anecdotal story. One of the nights I brought my street stock up to Fulton last year happened to be autograph night. I joked around with my cousin and girlfriend about bringing pictures because who is going to want the last place street stocks autograph but I had a coupon for discount prints at Walgreens and didn’t want to wait by myself in the pits for 45 minutes or however long the autograph session was so I made 35 copies for $2 or $3. That night I overheated in the heat race and wasn’t sure if the car would even start but I managed to get out there for the autograph session. I think I was the only street stock with a stock steel body there that night and people were stopping asking what year Camaro it was, what kind of motor and trans I had, how you build a car like that or get into racing. Some people had racecars like mine in their garages and talked about getting by them out to race again )or why they won’t) and some former drivers reminiscing about when all the cars looked like mine. Not only did I get rid of all 35 of those pictures but I signed a bunch of shirts too. I was the guy someone was shooting the breeze with. Not bad for being a driver that nobody would normally care about. No matter if you’re the fastest modified or the slowest street stock, there is probably someone out there that’s curious. Anything that gets the fans and racers closer together benefits everyone.
    10 points
  3. Top left to lower right in chronological order... Row 1: The Kim and Tom Ewing Corvair went from 1974 to part way through 1975. Milt Johnson found the white coupe which was later painted to be the orange coupe for Alan to finish the 1975 season with. 1976 was the dawn of a new era when Alan, Milt and Cliff Barcomb teamed together. Alan drove, Milt supplied the engines and Barcomb supplied the cars. Row 2: 1977 - Same car as 1976, just new body and paint. This is the paint scheme that Alan had when he won the last Modified show ever at Waterloo on July 23rd, 1977. The red car is the paint scheme for 1978. Still the same car from 1976. The Circus Wagon made its debut at the end of July or early August of 1978. If you look at the rear of the Circus Wagon, you can see the rear of the other car. Pep Pepicelli was brought on as a team member. Alan finished the 1978 season in the car. Row 3: 1979 - Enter Tico Conley and Scott Stackus. During the 1978 - 1979 off season, the car on the lower left was built. This car racked up a lot of wins between 1979 and 1980 - 24 of them to be exact. The lower center picture fits in here somewhere in 1980, although nobody seems to know quite where. Danny drove it briefly in 1981, shortly before getting the Henium 10 ride. And then of course, the lower right picture is Mudd Buss #1. And if you're still reading this, the car in the lower left corner was the donor car that became Mudd Buss #1. Alan and Maynard called it Mudd Buss 0.
    10 points
  4. Or just find another division(s) and enjoy that. With streaming, it's never been easier to be a fan of other divisions and get into them. Dirt Modifieds aren't the only division out there. I have said this before on, but dirt Modifieds are so much less competitive than they were 30 years ago. Sprint Cars are so much more competitive than they were 30 years ago.
    9 points
  5. People who say “If you don’t like the product, don’t go”….. have you looked in the stands at most places lately? That’s exactly what people are doing. I think what Bob is trying to accomplish here is to let track operators know maybe WHY there are so few people in the stands now.. 🤷🏼‍♂️
    7 points
  6. If there was a way to grab Hearn, McCreadie, all 3 Johnson’s, Horton, Hoffman, Plazek and Paine from the early to mid 90s and teleport them to today…….modified racing would be great again. There comes a time when any sport or form of entertainment has to stop living off of the past. Years ago we had this discussion on this forum. It’s constantly brought up that Alan and Danny need rides. No they don’t and they havnt for years, mod racing absolutely must develop new names and talent. Young Guys need opportunities that many have never been presented. We don’t know how many possible challengers to Matt have come and gone……spent what they had and moved on. Instead the legends of the sport, that are way past their prime continue to get rides and sponsors or the families with deep pockets field cars and the product sucks. Wrestling is a perfect example and blue print….it has gone through multiple “golden ages”. Each time led by all new talent that attracted both old and new fans. The NFL has had multiple great eras. Led by totally different names with some old vets hanging on and building story lines. Racing in general struggles at this and modified racing is the worst.
    7 points
  7. What about us old timers that supported a race tack for 60 years and still want to watch races but do to health we are unable to go any more. You just want to cast us aside like a old used tire. Remember you'll be old some day. There are also a lot of women that like racing but don't like the dust.
    7 points
  8. True, but I remember I got my uncle (non race fan) to go with me one time when I told him it was topless night
    6 points
  9. To each their own, but if you told me a year end 200 lapper was going to be all green flag laps this year, you couldn’t pay me to go. It would probably take 3-4 hours to complete on a race track that would be completely trash 75 laps in. NYS mod fans have this odd fascination with number of laps and length of track. As the sprint cars and LMs have shown many of us, less laps and shorter tracks often provide much more excitement than watching a follow the leader race on a one lane track with announcers manufacturing drama about running out of fuel or tires.
    6 points
  10. Everyone remember Blockbuster Video? An industry that grew renting video's became huge and then disappeared almost over night as the streaming services took over. Racing is no longer what it was in the 60's ,70's 80', 90's 2000's .. But it is still here. We all need to stop bitching about it and try to be positive about it or it will be the next Blockbuster Video and we'll have no one to blame but ourselves...
    6 points
  11. What do you expect them to say? Modified racing sucks and is in a bad state? Could It be worse? Absolutely. Is it better than racing in many other parts of the country…..absolutely. Is it a far cry from its heyday……absolutely. Years ago tracks were not happy to have 16-20 car fields. That’s a good season average at most mod tracks now. To believe modified racing is headed in the right direction just because there have been some big money races is stupidity. Not quite as stupid as believing you are racing a big block modified when you and a bunch of 12 year olds are on I racing……but stupid none the less. Are you a real NFL quarterback just because you played as one on madden? Claiming that’s racing is the most asinine thing I’ve ever heard. With that said….I racing has absolutely zero to do with losing car owners and sponsors. It was huge during Covid……but has since turned back into just a video game. 95% of The people that are on there were never going to build a racecar. Hell 90% have never turned a wrench. Now, if you want to say the fact that the younger generation are just not as intrigued by cars in general…..you are on to something. People used to work on your own vehicles……go race mom and dads impala when you were supposed to be going to the movies. Those days are gone. Many racers and crew guys started as buddies working on cars and building a racecar……that’s ancient history. Now if dad doesn’t buy you one, you are on a computer, playing a video game or participating in some other sport. I’d bet many of the “family” teams are dads living through their children and pushing them to race. There has not been anywhere near enough focus put on building interest in the younger generation.
    6 points
  12. I don't know that I think racing isn't "fun" anymore, but there is a tipping point of expense to be competitive that makes the spending part of it not fun. 20 years ago or so a guy could have a decently successful small business and it could fund a fairly competitive race car. But when you're now talking burning through 6 figures per season to start with that's a very different level of investment that excludes a lot of people. And I'm not talking about the guy who shows up fully knowing he's unloading to run 14th at best and have fun, because that person is valuable but that's not where the next hot young driver is going to be found from. I think that divide between the top few teams and the rest of the field is the widest it's ever been and that keeps people out. We're in an era where a competitive engine costs more than an average person earns in a year and the return, especially in NE mods, is very very minimal.
    6 points
  13. Teams are spending 50k on racecars, 40-70k on engines and the cost of tires and fuel continue to rise……yet a Nascar liscense which opens up the possibility of a bunch of point fund opportunities will be the deterrent. 👍
    6 points
  14. The down side is that now you will have to go fuck yourself for showing again how uncompetitive that race is. 😂 😉I am hoping next year that 150 drivers that could win the race show up. Jumper12A had 96.4 percent of the field and none of them finished in the top three.
    6 points
  15. Isn’t it like that at all racetracks? There are only a certain amount of cars that have a chance to win. Don’t understand why you are making a fuss about this race when they’re all the same.
    6 points
  16. I am in for courtesy lap(s) flat tires only. IF any tire is not flat when you pull in? The race goes Green Flag next lap.
    6 points
  17. If the promoters are banking a ton of money from online? Then how can it be a slow death to the tracks? It can not be both. I would agree though with a black out within say 50 miles er so. Not 150. That is three hour ride one way in some cases.
    6 points
  18. Of course not. So why do we patronize events that advertise they are "X" amount of laps, but then count laps under caution?
    5 points
  19. Professional raceteams beating up on weekend racers is a massive reason why much of the fun is gone for sponsors/owners and participants. Sure people can tell you that racing against those teams makes you better……they relish the opportunity…..bullshit. Nobody wants to invest thousands of extra dollars and a ton of their free time just to go get their ass kicked constantly by guys that do this for a living. Weekend racing is for hobby racers. Weekend warriors who work 40 hours a week and love to field a raceteam. They then love the couple opportunities a year to beat the big money when it comes to town.
    5 points
  20. Don't get me started. Live pit stops are the worst and add a ton of unnecessary danger and absolutely favor the well-funded profesional teams. It's like they took all the worst parts of NASCAR and tried to pour it into the Modified division.
    5 points
  21. And those 12 year olds don't stick around in a division or track long enough to develop any kind of fan following. By the time they get to the truck series, the races are like watching a piano recital. The drivers might be talented, but they're a bunch of nobodies. The only interest in most of those drivers is from their own families.
    5 points
  22. It's not even the counting caution laps per se that is a big turn off for me when it comes to long distance Modified races anymore. When there is an accident and caution laps count, fine. But the running a couple laps under green, then having someone slow with a flat tire or just because they want to make an adjustment is definitely more of an issue in dirt Modifieds than in other divisions.
    5 points
  23. I can quickly calculate return on investment for any current/past or possible sponsor or car owner……close to or virtually zero. People didn’t flock to nice n easy because it was on a racecar. John Macdougall liked racing, so he sponsored racecars…..and wrote it off. The stores were going to be successful either way. Bob Mccreadie was an asset to Kinney drugs……the place has done just fine since his retirement and they are not writing a big check anymore. More businesses have filed bankruptcy and closed the doors for spending too much on racing, than have ever grown exponentially from being involved in it. Investing in or owning a raceteam is a tax help, and something you love. Not one even remotely decent business man would say writing a 5-50k check to a raceteam to drive around in front of 70% empty grandstands 20-70 times a year is going to help business.
    5 points
  24. I think one thing that has really changed is how technical racing has become. Modifieds in their heyday were overpowered, big tired cars -- way more power than the driver could handle, you want to win, you powerslide it into the turns and hold on. It was exciting, it felt like chaos could break out at any moment. Now, the suspension and aero have made it so that the cars really don't seem overpowered and so the racing seems so much more technical, keep the car as straight as possible and hit your marks every lap. A team who can set up a car for that little bit more grip going into and coming out of the turns is the one who has the real advantage and drivers cranking it sideways don't gain anything from it. I think one of the reasons why Sprint cars, both USAC/Wingless and winged are both thriving is that they have that sense of impending chaos, you can change and swap lanes all the time and it's those instant, split-second moves that make it exciting. They look like riding on the ragged edge that Modifieds used to have. Personally, my favorite classes have become wingless sprints and midgets and wingless 600 cc micros because the racing is so wild and chaotic. I never even gave the classes a second glance 20-30 years ago, but now they are consistently the best show in any form of racing.
    5 points
  25. Racers tend to prefer time trials, because leaving stuff to chance kinda sucks. It’s staggering how few fans understand that.
    5 points
  26. The good old days. Couldn’t have said it better myself. I used to love walking through the pits and seeing open trailers, busses and in some cases street stocks that drove to the races with a couple of tires and a jack thrown in the back. It was primitive. It was low budget - so far as racing goes - and it was fantastic! My interest in NASCAR was largely personality driven. The rivalries; open helmets. Cowboy boots and nascar pools at the bar. Dale died then the format changed (several times, each one worse than the one before) and now I couldn’t name 5 drivers and haven’t watched a single second in years. I was a fanatic and now nothing. To an extent modified racing is heading down a similar path for me - albeit to a lesser and more gradual extent. Too polished, too engineered, almost too perfect. Used to love the dramatic differences in looks and styles of driving. Watched McCreadie come from the back one night at a series race in CanAm. Fans were literally at the fence shaking it with excitement. Not to say there aren’t moments now, but man the nostalgia in me says it ain’t like it used to be.
    5 points
  27. We need more Fulton's, Brewerton's, Grandview's and Big Diamond's and less Orange County's, Lebanon Valley's, Fonda's and Canandaigua's. IMO, the racing on the shorter tracks is so much better. And, that doesn't just apply to mods. Watching a crate car on a half mile is like watching paint dry. We can talk about $$, but when the weekly warrior feels they need a stacker to race, well, that's just nuts. I think if we had 3 Matt Sheppard's, we'd be fine. Unfortunately, we don't and it wouldn't surprise me if Sheppard wins 50 races this year. And, despite the fact that I like Matt, that makes the racing less enjoyable.
    5 points
  28. You yourself a little over a month ago said you like to stir the pot and enjoy pushing other people's buttons. It's a two way street dude.
    5 points
  29. Money to have an ambulance on site gets put into the purse instead. 😏
    5 points
  30. I'd make a rule for the driver's that once the race starts: if it's not broke or blown - don't touch it! And if you do - you're going 2 laps down or your racing for your own pleasure (no money paid) This cuts way too deep into green flag racing, ruins the whole flow of the race, and quite simply is a huge entertainment killer. We all know that no promotor or race director wants to hear about why they put one of the stars a lap down because the "star(s)" of the show were in the pits screwing around with an adjustment because they read the track wrong before the race started.
    5 points
  31. NASCAR used to say that a lot, too ... and it's working for them, amirite? The only way to sell out a race these days is to remove grandstands.
    4 points
  32. We're not talking about live pit stops. We're talking about the 100 lap specials that dot our schedules. I see 2 blatant wrongs with cautions counting against the total distance. The first is that these events usually come at a higher admission price. We support these shows because we want to see how our locals match up to invaders. This is a chance for us to see most of the headliners battle head to head and be rewarded with a higher paycheck. They take planning. In some cases we need to schedule vacation time to attend them. And when we get there, concession prices have been raised on all items by 50 cents or a buck. But we come anyway because this is what we do. So the feature turns into a caution fest. Most of it from the drivers themselves wanting to change a tire or make an adjustment, so he draws a yellow and ducks into the pits. Now timing and scoring has to realign the restart order. The dude that drew the yellow returns to the track and falls in line behind the lead lap cars. In some cases, that's as high as 12th or 15th. We go green again and someone else draws a yellow because he's not going anywhere. And again timing and scoring has to realign the field while they turn laps under yellow. And who benefits from all of this? The top five cars because the race keeps getting shorter and shorter. There isn't one of us out there that can't say they went to a 100 lap special somewhere and only saw 30 to 35 laps of actual racing. Who gets screwed? The guys running 12th to 15th who need 5 or 6 green flag laps for their cars to start working again. They are stuck in those spots because of all of the cautions. And keep your eyes on the lap counters under caution. They'll take 2 away at a time if they are approaching the curfew, or if it's starting to rain and they are short of the half way point and because they think nobody is paying attention. "If you don't like the cautions, stay home." Really? I want to stop the blatant rip off, so I can't be a fan any more?
    4 points
  33. I like the first turn, you can usually get good seats higher up, than you can with the main stretch. I also suggest buying a pit pass for one of the nights and watching them enter the 3rd turn at speed. Wherever you choose to sit, it’s going to be a great event.
    4 points
  34. As an IRacer... I will say this... Ive gotten on track.. I was shocked how close some of it was (steering input, throttle input, general race craft). Why do I do it? I have a good time passing cars and the challenge of it... If this was 40 years ago (and I wasnt 1 year old...) I would have a car.. why? Cause I could have afforded it, and that would be my thrill.. Now, there is no way in hell I could afford to do it on my salary, so I take what I can get. Are there people who would have been racers out there sticking to the computer... Yes.. I can build a monster computer for less than I can buy the safety equipment I would want to have. I guess it depends on how you want to look at it... IRacing keeps me from spending money I dont have to feed the addiction... but if I had the money, which is wayyyyy beyond what I actually have, I wouldnt be regressing to iracing by choice.
    4 points
  35. I agree except for the part when he talked about grabbing 3 Johnsons.
    4 points
  36. This^^^. But IF you are stuck on modifieds, and that tired of Sheppard winning? Then go to a race at a track where Sheppard is not. Not all that hard to look at schedules and figure it out. Several different tracks out there racing on the same night. I posted this in another thread, 18 of the 28 race events I attended in 2022 had modifieds on the card . Sheppard won just 3 of those. Friesen 0.
    4 points
  37. Actually Johnny Boy I have been giving you a test . What you might ask ? You see we have all read your posts about how you enjoy pushing peoples buttons so I figured I would push your buttons a little bit to see how you would hold up . How do you think you did ?
    4 points
  38. WRG actually pays CBS to air the dirt races. This idea that the WoO series’ are so mega popular that it gets TV is flawed. And to be fair, Lucas bought a whole TV station to put his product on tv, and that became so unprofitable they switched to a streaming model, then sold those rights to Flo.
    4 points
  39. Deyo's STSS, DIRT, and Eastern States Weekend are already scheduled. What happens in between is the big question. OCFS attracts a ton of quality sportsmen teams, and they always put on a great show. Also, the pro stocks are arguably the best show there, more than just a few races end with "under a blanket" finishes. And at the risk of repeating myself, I will never understand, much less accept, the bewildering extravagance on improvements (some questionable at best) at the expense of the "elephant in the room", the track's surface. Just what in the hell were they thinking?
    4 points
  40. The Grosso family, who ran the track in it's prime years between 1998 and 2006 have taken back over. Really good news as management since Grosso was in charge has left a lot of be desired, and attendance and fields are a fraction of what they were. Look for a couple surprising guys to switch to New Egypt weekly this year
    4 points
  41. Best wishes to Fingerlakes Machine this year as well!
    4 points
  42. Personally the chili bowl management team should be embarrassed. Race winner banks 10k on a 6 night event but the 50/50 winner banks 5xs the winner. That should never happen. The week does have good racing and is exciting to watch.The atmosphere is outstanding and real cool. I don’t like how drivers just move each other out of the way just to pass most times. But you got to pass some how I give the chili bowl a C- only because I’m an owner and I spend a lot of money on race cars. if it paid 25k to win and money thru the C and B then my grade would be a A- Like I said before a lot of management people are walking out of there with a big smile laughing all the way to the bank.
    4 points
  43. LOL I notice you didn't dispute the facts of what I wrote. You are the only person in this thread telling people to go fuck themselves. You bring the problems on yourself by being the biggest troublemaker on this board, then getting mad any time someone disagrees.
    4 points
  44. As an engineer I can say this approach is used all the time at multiple businesses I have worked at. “Bring in the engineers!” The engineers come in… do a whole bunch of math and they reach no conclusion. Then they either: request more engineers, suggest no viable solution, or they suggest software can fix the problem. Usually the janitor is the one who solves the problem.
    4 points
  45. LOL So there are 100 cars and drivers with the capabilities of winning the Chili Bowl, yet you belittled WUHD for selecting 13 drivers out of 365 entries? I took 10 drivers last year, gave you over 300 drivers and still dominated. Not a single one of my 10 choices was beaten by a non FFTR driver on any preliminary night.
    4 points
  46. I agree…..there’s nothing wrong with taking a week to weed out the 335 guys that have no shot at winning the race. It’s a spectacle. But let’s not make it seem like it’s the most competitive race in the country. Based off of results and entries…..it’s quite the opposite.
    4 points
  47. One series has been around for decades, the other series decided to do everything differently.
    4 points
  48. Car counts are super overrated. Realistically, at any race there are 5-10 drivers that could conceivably win. Doesn’t matter if it’s out of 35 or 500 cars. Hundreds of cars just drag out the show unnecessarily.
    4 points
  49. The SDS should run from April-September with the champion crowned on Labor Day weekend. Then I would bring back the Mr Dirt Series that would run from September-November with the champion crowned at Charlotte. I would make that similar to the STSS Elite Series.
    4 points
  50. Auto Racing Research Associates Website Continues to Grow!! Ringoes,NJ – ARRA …Auto Racing Research Associates, a group of nearly forty nationwide auto racing historians, continue to add to their ever growing website literally by the week! Just today, three more additions have been added to the popular reference site which details statistics on driver careers, track, racing organization and traveling series’ histories, the background on particular racing teams, car owners and even in some instances, particular cars. Historian Tim Quievryn submitted his latest effort and it covers the USAC dirt track late model series which ran from 1985 through 1988 and featured such notable drivers as Billy Moyer, Larry Phillips, Jeff Purvis and C.J. Rayburn. You can find that page at this link: https://sites.google.com/view/tracks-series-organizations/usac-late-model-series ARRA founding member Bill Skinner continues to shed light on the early years of Northeast racing and he submits copies of actual newspaper articles covering the early days of the Flemington Speedway from his archives of racing memorabilia. A new page has been created and is appropriately displayed in the Bill Hanna Special Reports page since Bill Hanna was the organizations “go to” guy for Flemington stats. See the link for Bill Skinners newest contribution, which will be added to as time goes by, at this link: https://sites.google.com/view/the-bill-hanna-wing/the-flemington-articles Finally, the annual Wintertime audit of the site by President Fred Voorhees has been ongoing and most, if not all 2023 racing schedules have been added to their respective pages…including the most recent available schedule that came in from the International SuperModified Association and that can be found at this link: https://sites.google.com/view/tracks-series-organizations/isma Auto Racing Research Associates is a growing group of thirty nine auto racing historians across the country banded together for the purpose of the research, documentation and displaying of auto racing history such as driver win statistics, track, racing series and organizations histories and also the background of racing personalities, particular cars from the past and various other interesting facts of racing history that should not be forgotten. ARRA continues to build a network of associated auto racing related websites to unite for better chances of furthering the understanding of the past of our sport. ARRA offers looking up services for those looking for one particular piece of information from the past. They are the official statistics information source of the Flemington Speedway Historical Society and have been doing much of the research work for a number of years for the Northeast Dirt Modified Museum and Hall of Fame in Weedsport, NY.
    4 points
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