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“There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty.”

John Adams, Notes for an Oration at Braintree, Massachusetts, 1772
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There is nothing “normal” about a mandatory showing of a vaccination ID in order to enter anywhere!!! 🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️

The vaccines people receive as a young child such as for the measles, mumps or chicken pox, prevent you from ever getting them. And there’s decades of proof that they’re effective. This Government con

I think you're on to something here, let's apply the same standard to racing safety. who needs seat belts? People still die. who needs roll cages? People still die. Who need fuel cells?

25 minutes ago, premiumdiesel said:

ill never get the covid vaccine i dont care what ill give up but ar least i wont get clots liquified liver or paralysis

My first thought was to not get but it appears that we will be regulated into it like it or not. I have a trailer at a campground in Lyndhurst Ontario that I haven't seen since Sept. 2019, with that being said I got my first shot on April 30th. Hopefully I will be able to get up to the camper sometime this year and being vaccinated is going to be a requirement to it happening I believe.

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3 hours ago, rpm72x said:

There are people and children out in public everyday that do not have immunizations to far worse and far more dangerous diseases than the China flu. We don’t make them show anything. I’m not for or against the vaccine, but I’m against mandating people to get it. This idea that everyone can just go get a covid test within 24 hours of going outside is a joke, it’s nothing more than herding people to the needle for financial gain. 

No, question there are unvaccinated people, including children walking among us. But they aren’t going to school in Ontario. And again, nobody is saying everyone has to get it. If people don’t want it so be it, but these same people shouldn’t complain when they can’t get on an airplane or attend a sporting event. 
 

As for the financial, I’m not going to venture over into the dark side of the web. Here is Canada there is no gain available. This is a public system. Every dose administered costs us money. We don’t own the manufacturing side of the business so there is no downstream financial windfall. And the bill for this is going to be staggering for Canadians. 

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6 minutes ago, JohnyC said:

No, question there are unvaccinated people, including children walking among us. But they aren’t going to school in Ontario. And again, nobody is saying everyone has to get it. If people don’t want it so be it, but these same people shouldn’t complain when they can’t get on an airplane or attend a sporting event. 

No complaint coming from me.   I would not support a business that required me to do so.  Airline/racetrack included

There are others out there that will still take my money.

 

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1 minute ago, leroy said:

No complaint coming from me.   I would not support a business that required me to do so.  Airline/racetrack included

There are others out there that will still take my money.

 

And I think that’s fair. We are all permitted to make our own choices and spend our money as we see fit. The sword cuts both ways so to speak 

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15 minutes ago, JohnyC said:

And I think that’s fair. We are all permitted to make our own choices and spend our money as we see fit. The sword cuts both ways so to speak 

Here is where I am at. 

If I have no shot.  And I sit next to someone who has taken a shot.  Why should it matter?  They can not get Covid.

right?     

either the crap works .  or not

I am not saying I will never get one.  Just. I am in not no big hurry  .  And should not be forced to for sure

Seeing that doctors and medical experts have changed their minds on just about everything covid related a dozen or so more times in the last year

Maybe they will change their minds regarding one or more of the vaccines..........again

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So 30% indoors and only 33% outdoors....🤦🏻‍♂️

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17 minutes ago, leroy said:

Here is where I am at. 

If I have no shot.  And I sit next to someone who has taken a shot.  Why should it matter?  They can not get Covid.

right?     

either the crap works .  or not

I am not saying I will never get one.  Just. I am in not no big hurry  .  And should not be forced to for sure

Seeing that doctors and medical experts have changed their minds on just about everything covid related a dozen or so more times in the last year

Maybe they will change their minds regarding one or more of the vaccines..........again

You can still get and transmit Covid even after you have the shot. The shot efficacy varies; it could be as high as 80% two to three weeks after the first dose rising to upwards of 95% two to three weeks following the second dose. In other words it’s pretty darn good. The biggest benefit though and this is just my opinion, is the protection it provides against significant illness. Unless you’ve seen it, and with the hospital restrictions most people haven’t, you have no idea how sick these patients are. I agree, you cannot force someone to take the shot, but I just don’t understand why someone wouldn’t. 
 

I know it’s difficult for some to understand, especially those (I’m not suggesting you specifically Leroy) that become so entrenched in a position that it becomes an impossibility to evolve and adjust based on new information. But that’s science. Yeah, we knew very little in March 2020. Yes messaging was inconsistent and evolved so what was standard one day changed the next. I acknowledge all the above. But as for the shot, the side effects as a percentage of administered doses is exceptionally small. So move away from the crutch that inconsistent messaging during the height of a global pandemic has left you uncertain about the safety of the vaccine. There is simply no correlation. And my point above is to try and illustrate that you don’t want this.
 

As to the point illustrated by Leroy, yeah it’s true - if 60-80% of those in attendance are vaccinated and maybe another 5-10% had Covid then yes the chance of transmission is low, multiplied given the outdoor setting. But all this only works if people take on the responsibility of getting the shot, so why not be part of the solution? I can’t think of a more Patriotic thing to do. 

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EDIT: Johnny and I posted at about the same time...

More people need to understand how this actually "works." 

No, none of the vaccines mean you cannot get Covid. If you sit next to someone who has it, you can get it. These things are not different than the Flu Shot. The Flu Shot does not mean you won't get it, just that if you do, it's not as bad as it would be if you didn't have the vaccine. 

Same thing with these. Pfizer and Moderna at 90% efficacy mean you can jump into a vat of Covid and it means you have a 90% chance of never getting anything... But there's a 10% chance you will. It won't send you to the hospital, or put you on a ventilator, or kill you (theoretically anyway.) J&J is a 65% efficacy, same deal. 

Now, as for vaccination or not... I don't care what anyone does. Just be accountable for your own decisions. You don't get the shot and you get Covid, don't bitch. For instance, CT just passed an anti-religious exemption to child vaccinations. This means that you can no longer claim a religious exemption to get out of vaccinating your kids and send them to public school. While I personally believe you'd be an idiot to do that, I DO NOT agree at all with the State passing this. Same goes for other laws that people would like to see abolished. What I personally believe is one thing, forcing that onto the populace is an egregious abuse of power. Ergo, I am absolutely NOT in favor of the Government mandating a damn thing. 

If a private business decides they want everyone vaccinated to enter their establishment, that's fine, that's on them. People don't need to patronize that business if they so choose. The free market will decide if that business owners decision was a good one or not and the chips will fall where they may.  

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4 hours ago, rpm72x said:

There are people and children out in public everyday that do not have immunizations to far worse and far more dangerous diseases than the China flu. We don’t make them show anything. I’m not for or against the vaccine, but I’m against mandating people to get it. This idea that everyone can just go get a covid test within 24 hours of going outside is a joke, it’s nothing more than herding people to the needle for financial gain. 

Did you say the China flu? Lmao. Give it up already.  Did you forget those famous words; "We have it all under control".  Lol.

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20 minutes ago, JohnyC said:

You can still get and transmit Covid even after you have the shot. The shot efficacy varies; it could be as high as 80% two to three weeks after the first dose rising to upwards of 95% two to three weeks following the second dose. In other words it’s pretty darn good. The biggest benefit though and this is just my opinion, is the protection it provides against significant illness. Unless you’ve seen it, and with the hospital restrictions most people haven’t, you have no idea how sick these patients are. I agree, you cannot force someone to take the shot, but I just don’t understand why someone wouldn’t. 
 

I know it’s difficult for some to understand, especially those (I’m not suggesting you specifically Leroy) that become so entrenched in a position that it becomes an impossibility to evolve and adjust based on new information. But that’s science. Yeah, we knew very little in March 2020. Yes messaging was inconsistent and evolved so what was standard one day changed the next. I acknowledge all the above. But as for the shot, the side effects as a percentage of administered doses is exceptionally small. So move away from the crutch that inconsistent messaging during the height of a global pandemic has left you uncertain about the safety of the vaccine. There is simply no correlation. And my point above is to try and illustrate that you don’t want this.
 

As to the point illustrated by Leroy, yeah it’s true - if 60-80% of those in attendance are vaccinated and maybe another 5-10% had Covid then yes the chance of transmission is low, multiplied given the outdoor setting. But all this only works if people take on the responsibility of getting the shot, so why not be part of the solution? I can’t think of a more Patriotic thing to do. 

Serving your country in the military is more patriotic.

I won't get the shot because I don't trust the US government or the pharmaceutical industry.

If you got the shot I have nothing against you and I hope you get to the races this summer JohnyC

 

 

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1 hour ago, JohnyC said:

You can still get and transmit Covid even after you have the shot. The shot efficacy varies; it could be as high as 80% two to three weeks after the first dose rising to upwards of 95% two to three weeks following the second dose. In other words it’s pretty darn good. The biggest benefit though and this is just my opinion, is the protection it provides against significant illness. Unless you’ve seen it, and with the hospital restrictions most people haven’t, you have no idea how sick these patients are. I agree, you cannot force someone to take the shot, but I just don’t understand why someone wouldn’t. 
 

I know it’s difficult for some to understand, especially those (I’m not suggesting you specifically Leroy) that become so entrenched in a position that it becomes an impossibility to evolve and adjust based on new information. But that’s science. Yeah, we knew very little in March 2020. Yes messaging was inconsistent and evolved so what was standard one day changed the next. I acknowledge all the above. But as for the shot, the side effects as a percentage of administered doses is exceptionally small. So move away from the crutch that inconsistent messaging during the height of a global pandemic has left you uncertain about the safety of the vaccine. There is simply no correlation. And my point above is to try and illustrate that you don’t want this.
 

As to the point illustrated by Leroy, yeah it’s true - if 60-80% of those in attendance are vaccinated and maybe another 5-10% had Covid then yes the chance of transmission is low, multiplied given the outdoor setting. But all this only works if people take on the responsibility of getting the shot, so why not be part of the solution? I can’t think of a more Patriotic thing to do. 

"new information". 

Is that not part of what I posted?

How do you know side effects as a percentage will continue to stay small?   You do not.  No one does for sure

"New information" could come regarding any and all of the vaccines.   In some cases it has already . And what has it been .  Just six months or so?

To each their own as to what their beliefs are.    As far as me getting Covid?   I am not at all worried about it.  Nothing has changed since day one regarding that

 

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24 minutes ago, scottnorwood said:

Serving your country in the military is more patriotic.

I won't get the shot because I don't trust the US government or the pharmaceutical industry.

If you got the shot I have nothing against you and I hope you get to the races this summer JohnyC

 

 

hate to say it but being a vet myself, when you get to basic training you get all kinds of shots and have no say in it what so ever. 

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10 minutes ago, leroy said:

"new information". 

Is that not part of what I posted?

How do you know side effects as a percentage will continue to stay small?   You do not.  No one does for sure

"New information" could come regarding any and all of the vaccines.   In some cases it has already . And what has it been .  Just six months or so?

To each their own as to what there beliefs are.    As far as me getting Covid?   I am not at all worried about it. 

 

Well, they have been vaccinating since December. I see that we have exceeded 1 billion doses globally. I’d say that’s a decent sample size. But to each their own. Could something come up down the road, sure that’s possible. 
 

I do laugh though in the irony of it all; you have absolutely no fear of Covid based on what, I don’t know, but on the other hand you are sceptical/worried about the vaccine. Do you not see that as running counter whatsoever? 

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44 minutes ago, scottnorwood said:

Serving your country in the military is more patriotic.

I won't get the shot because I don't trust the US government or the pharmaceutical industry.

If you got the shot I have nothing against you and I hope you get to the races this summer JohnyC

 

 

I personally see a parallel; the lack of immediate gratification but knowing the service you have provided is almost certainly going to benefit someone else more so than it benefits you. It is entertaining selfless to put the best interest of others first. Yeah, as a healthy 42 year old it’s unlikely that I get really sick and die. But in taking the vaccine I am protecting someone else who isn’t as healthy or may not fair as well as me. I think that’s patriotic and although I personally never served I have sidelined in military history my whole life and can’t be more appreciative of the heroic acts of those who serve their country in both times of conflict or times of peacekeeping/preparedness. 
 

And yes, I hope to goodness we get rolling again - I’d love to get back to a track soon and watch these guys throw dirt up close. 

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6 hours ago, JohnyC said:

I can’t speak for the government but I personally thought getting to 75-80% would be too high a mountain to climb. Herd immunity will be reached through a combination of the vaccines and infection rates, not exclusively one or the other. But just because you don’t believe it doesn’t mean it’s not real. 
 

What I don’t understand though is the hypocrisy; people, myself included, want to move forward. We now have a roadmap to get back on track; I see NYC will be 100% open come July 1 and the news on race tracks is very positive. And I’m thrilled! With the dollar strengthening we are planning a trip this fall. So what’s the complaint? Vaccine or have a swab done and you’re good to go. Why is that so hard? Life is about choices and consequences. Nobody is forcing anyone to vaccinate. If you don’t want to, so be it. But don’t turn around and complain when you can’t simply return to normal and do everything the way you could before when you aren’t willing to be a part of the solution. 
 

It’s interesting that people who said “if you’re scared to get the virus stay home” are now upset because they’re told if they’re afraid to get the vaccine stay home 

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1 minute ago, PatsJags14 said:

It’s interesting that people who said “if you’re scared to get the virus stay home” are now upset because they’re told if they’re afraid to get the vaccine stay home 

I have not stayed home yet.  

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1 minute ago, PatsJags14 said:

It’s interesting that people who said “if you’re scared to get the virus stay home” are now upset because they’re told if they’re afraid to get the vaccine stay home 

I saw a photo today that said, if you don't need a vaccine because God will protect you, why do you need a gun?

The amount of anger over other people getting a vaccine is unbelievable.

I support freedom to choose, and fully accept the consequences of my actions.

I also accept the choices made by others.

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15 minutes ago, paulgarrow said:

I saw a photo today that said, if you don't need a vaccine because God will protect you, why do you need a gun?

The amount of anger over other people getting a vaccine is unbelievable.

I support freedom to choose, and fully accept the consequences of my actions.

I also accept the choices made by others.

What anger?   You can get fifty vaccines.   I do not give a shtt.  
as my dad used to say, “ don’t effect my life buck”

I am fairly sure the COVID shot deal will turn into a once a year thing anyway.  Been reading that more than once.  

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3 hours ago, JohnyC said:

No, question there are unvaccinated people, including children walking among us. But they aren’t going to school in Ontario. And again, nobody is saying everyone has to get it. If people don’t want it so be it, but these same people shouldn’t complain when they can’t get on an airplane or attend a sporting event. 
 

As for the financial, I’m not going to venture over into the dark side of the web. Here is Canada there is no gain available. This is a public system. Every dose administered costs us money. We don’t own the manufacturing side of the business so there is no downstream financial windfall. And the bill for this is going to be staggering for Canadians. 

So we should look up and label every un vaccinated adult or child that has opted against all immunizations and not allow them into or on anything as well.

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35 minutes ago, leroy said:

What anger?   You can get fifty vaccines.   I do not give a shtt.  
as my dad used to say, “ don’t effect my life buck”

I am fairly sure the COVID shot deal will turn into a once a year thing anyway.  Been reading that more than once.  

I also think that’s very possible. In fact I’d say more probable than possible at this point. 

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1 minute ago, rpm72x said:

So we should look up and label every un vaccinated adult or child that has opted against all immunizations and not allow them into or on anything as well.

No, because we have mostly reached herd immunity for these other ailments. We still see TB positive patients at the hospital. As a percentage of the population it’s rare. 
 

We haven’t reached herd immunity yet so until such time as we do expect to see such things as vaccine passports for entry or inclusion. 

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7 hours ago, DowntheBackStretch said:

Mindboggling... lmao...

It means you are boring me.............

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