High Limit 410 Series Schedule

[jwt]

I can only guess what the two of them are thinking. I don’t think Kyle knows anything about promotion or running a series and not sure what brads background is. If they don’t have a good long term plan it could do more harm than good. 

[WMR Racing]

6 hours ago, jumper12a said:

Now that the full 12 race schedule is out, I’m really curious to see how this plays out over the course of 2023. This schedule is built around the WoO schedule & their rules in order to attract WoO teams to compete. My curiosity ramps up when you consider the possibility of a couple weather delayed events. They don’t really have the ability to run the next day in many cases, due to the WoO contract restrictions. It will be very difficult to schedule at a later date. Do they scrap them altogether? It will be interesting how Kyle & Brad handle these situations.

 

Pretty much right here your saying that they put the schedule together so woo drivers could race   Or may I reading this wrong?   Woo drivers sell tickets yeah but so does Kyle and sometimes more depending where they are racing. 

[scottnorwood]

38 minutes ago, jumper12a said:

I do love motorsports in general. Non-Wing racing is my favorite, for sure. I do have friends at WRG, absolutely, but that doesn’t mean they do everything right in my views. That’s a perception that folks here created. Nobody is perfect. Having said that, I enjoy pushing people’s buttons. People who actually know me well, know I like to stir the pot, sick back and watch’em go! Maybe that doesn’t always translate well on the internet lol. I think most people would say I’m really not a bad dude lol, I’m just passionate.

The wingless stuff is good to watch. The problem with it for me is that racing is much more intense if I know the people racing. Having that connection makes the race mean more for me. That’s why I always thought street stocks were the best class growing up. One guy was my neighbor. My dad worked with a couple guys. At my elementary school one of the janitors worked on a car. It just made it more intense. Especially after the race.. 

 

so that’s why the wingless stuff doesn’t do much for me.

[jumper12a]

25 minutes ago, WMR Racing said:

Pretty much right here your saying that they put the schedule together so woo drivers could race   Or may I reading this wrong?   Woo drivers sell tickets yeah but so does Kyle and sometimes more depending where they are racing. 

Considering every event is nearby a WoO event and within the time allowance of a WoO event, it’s pretty obvious Brad & Kyle know it’s important for business to have them in attendance.

And don’t forget, Brad is a WoO driver, but I’m sure he’d like to race too.

[jumper12a]

12 minutes ago, scottnorwood said:

The wingless stuff is good to watch. The problem with it for me is that racing is much more intense if I know the people racing. Having that connection makes the race mean more for me. That’s why I always thought street stocks were the best class growing up. One guy was my neighbor. My dad worked with a couple guys. At my elementary school one of the janitors worked on a car. It just made it more intense. Especially after the race.. 

 

so that’s why the wingless stuff doesn’t do much for me.

I certainly get that connection, but if you watch it more frequently, you’ll learn the drivers. Like anything new.

[con7]

I thought  there would be more independent events like the one earlier this year at Lincoln Park which even if they could have run it very few woo teams would have given they had to be in Jackson MN 2 days later.

This schedule basically piggy backs off the WoO schedule 11 out of 12 times. At best the WoO teams will be able to run 4 of the 12 without giving up benefits, and that number goes down if Eldora million is counted as one of the 4. 

I think you’ll see everyone at Lakeside and Lernerville for the $50k shows. After that it’ll be interesting. 

[luke81]

Anyone else feeling like maybe both sides assumed this would go differently, and now we're headed toward some sort of mexican standoff?  

Is WoO going to count the unsanctioned race nights the week of the King Royal and the Capitani Classic before the knoxville nats against their 4 races?  Seems like it would be silly to do so, but the WoO isn't above a dumb decision here and there.

Assuming the million counts as 1 of the 4, are the WoO teams in a group chat right now coordinating who is racing which 3 races so they don't all unload at the same tracks?  If you're Shark racing (or any multi car team) do you run both cars in the same race 3 times?  Only 1 can win.  Or do you attend 6 races with 1 car each time?

Also the outlaws still didn't properly update their trash website.  It appears the last time the drivers page was updated was before the 2021 season.  Sweet still has 2 championships, according to his bio.  That is absolutely pathetic.      

[robracer]

13 hours ago, con7 said:

I thought  there would be more independent events like the one earlier this year at Lincoln Park which even if they could have run it very few woo teams would have given they had to be in Jackson MN 2 days later.

This schedule basically piggy backs off the WoO schedule 11 out of 12 times. At best the WoO teams will be able to run 4 of the 12 without giving up benefits, and that number goes down if Eldora million is counted as one of the 4. 

I think you’ll see everyone at Lakeside and Lernerville for the $50k shows. After that it’ll be interesting. 

You have to remember that only 10-12 guys follow the Outlaws. If they draw 40 cars to an event that leaves 28 cars that can do whatever they want.  Those fringe teams will most likely stick around and run High Limit.

[robracer]

13 hours ago, jumper12a said:

I certainly get that connection, but if you watch it more frequently, you’ll learn the drivers. Like anything new.

I agree. There are some bad mofo's that have run non wing their whole careers. Indiana and California have a bunch of bad azzez that work full time jobs but are incredible Wheelman. 

[westracing01]

The Outlaws have the name, the drivers and a staggeringly stubborn attitude. I understand why, and it's their sandbox, but I agree that I think both sides may have thought this would go differently. 

WoO is clearly concerned or they wouldn't have given even 4 races. 

I feel as if the latest announcements from the biggest 2 Nationals tours are squandering the momentum. The Lucas deal may not amount to a hill of beans, but I still don't like it. 

My personal wish is all the big gun WoO teams don't sign the contract and go true Outlaw. It would overnight make WoO irrelevant. Why go to a WoO race when your not guaranteed to see who you're paying to see? 

[BillSmith]

15 hours ago, jumper12a said:

I certainly get that connection, but if you watch it more frequently, you’ll learn the drivers. Like anything new.

A great place to start is watching the highlights from Flo on YouTube ... racing is wild and you'll learn who is who pretty quickly.

[Uncle tom]

“I do have friends at WRG, absolutely, but that doesn’t mean they do everything right in my views. “

I’m curious as to what specifically you feel that they don’t do correctly ?

[con7]

1 hour ago, westracing01 said:

The Outlaws have the name, the drivers and a staggeringly stubborn attitude. I understand why, and it's their sandbox, but I agree that I think both sides may have thought this would go differently. 

WoO is clearly concerned or they wouldn't have given even 4 races. 

I feel as if the latest announcements from the biggest 2 Nationals tours are squandering the momentum. The Lucas deal may not amount to a hill of beans, but I still don't like it. 

My personal wish is all the big gun WoO teams don't sign the contract and go true Outlaw. It would overnight make WoO irrelevant. Why go to a WoO race when your not guaranteed to see who you're paying to see? 

That’s basically what happened in 2006 when Kinser, Lasoski and others left to start the NST. Only Schatz, Pittman and Dollansky were big names who stayed behind with the woO then and they weren’t the big stars of the day. We know how that turned out. 
 

 

[jwt]

2 hours ago, BillSmith said:

A great place to start is watching the highlights from Flo on YouTube ... racing is wild and you'll learn who is who pretty quickly.

  The one big complaint I have about flo is their ticker shows the top 3 or 5 with names only, No number or colour to reference too.
  Add to that Usac drivers swap seats making it hard to keep track as well as numbers that are hard to read. 

[iamaranger23]

I would be very surprised if WRG put out those platinum terms last week without being reasonably sure it would be enough to get the standard 12-15 teams. 

 

Technically, the million might not even be allowed at all based on what they released. Obviously They'll get the ok in some form though. Wouldn't be surprised if they keep a blanket exemption offer for the million, cappy, and front row challenge in their back pocket if they need to sweeten the deal a bit more. 

 

Teams and drivers can say how they want to race more all they want. At the end of the day, they are going to do what makes them the most money. Realistically, not theoretically. And WRG still makes a pretty strong case that it's them, especially with the platinum changes and schedule changes. 

 

I still think Sweet is the only one that will jump ship. And that's only because he can double-dip with the high limit races. 

 

I think ASCoC are the ones that will really be hurt this year. 

[jumper12a]

3 hours ago, Uncle tom said:

“I do have friends at WRG, absolutely, but that doesn’t mean they do everything right in my views. “

I’m curious as to what specifically you feel that they don’t do correctly ?

There isn’t just one specific thing. There have been times where maybe I didn’t agree with a specific decision. These things happen daily in life. You move on.

[jumper12a]

14 minutes ago, iamaranger23 said:

I still think Sweet is the only one that will jump ship. And that's only because he can double-dip with the high limit races.

You are assuming he has that option. He doesn’t own the 49 team, Kasey does. Kasey also has a major corporate sponsor to appease. Who says Napa doesn’t specify they must run the WoO? I’m pretty sure Napa really has enjoyed winning that championship the last 4 years. It’s very nice bragging rights for them. They put a lot of money into making that happen. Napa took full advantage of having Brad Sweet & Ron Capps as Champions in their respective race teams in 2022, I’d bet they expect that again.

[iamaranger23]

Just now, jumper12a said:

You are assuming he has that option. He doesn’t own the 49 team, Kasey does. Kasey also has a major corporate sponsor to appease. Who says Napa doesn’t specify they must run the WoO? I’m pretty sure Napa really has enjoyed winning that championship the last 4 years. It’s very nice bragging rights for them. They put a lot of money into making that happen. Napa took full advantage of having Brad Sweet & Ron Capps as Champions in their respective race teams in 2022, I’d bet they expect that again.

Not denying that at all. I said sweet, not KKR.  At the end of the day, brad can do whatever he wants. He very well might be willing to step out of that full time car. 

 

He promotes this series now, Silver Dollar speedway, and some events at placerville I believe. He could get a top ride in any of the big races that he wants. I could easily see him stepping back to something like that along with some more family time. He's 36, might be a bit early but at some point he needs to set himself up for life after the outlaws. Doesn't have a ton left to accomplish on the tour. 

[WheelsUpHammerDown10]

1 hour ago, iamaranger23 said:

I still think Sweet is the only one that will jump ship. And that's only because he can double-dip with the high limit races. 

 

I think ASCoC are the ones that will really be hurt this year. 

I honestly think Sheldon Haudenschild is the one most likely to jump ship off the WoO Tour this year.

Yes I'm well familiar with who his primary sponsor is and the name that sponsors the WoO Tour.

But his car owner and him have been two of the most out-spoken against the WoO contract constraints and needing to find a way to get those guys more opportunities to make money. 

Sheldon could go true Outlaw/Brent Marks style or run the All-Stars and hit up all the High Limit events and probably have a good shot at making as much or money money than the WoO Tour without being forced to travel as much.

 

[scottnorwood]

4 hours ago, con7 said:

That’s basically what happened in 2006 when Kinser, Lasoski and others left to start the NST. Only Schatz, Pittman and Dollansky were big names who stayed behind with the woO then and they weren’t the big stars of the day. We know how that turned out. 
 

 

That’s not the only time it happened. I think 1989 Kinser Swindell and others left the woo

[scottnorwood]

5 hours ago, westracing01 said:

The Outlaws have the name, the drivers and a staggeringly stubborn attitude. I understand why, and it's their sandbox, but I agree that I think both sides may have thought this would go differently. 

WoO is clearly concerned or they wouldn't have given even 4 races. 

I feel as if the latest announcements from the biggest 2 Nationals tours are squandering the momentum. The Lucas deal may not amount to a hill of beans, but I still don't like it. 

My personal wish is all the big gun WoO teams don't sign the contract and go true Outlaw. It would overnight make WoO irrelevant. Why go to a WoO race when your not guaranteed to see who you're paying to see? 

So. You want Outlaws to be Outlaws. Interesting….

 

Today most of the WoO are more like In-laws… 

[iamaranger23]

1 hour ago, WheelsUpHammerDown10 said:

I honestly think Sheldon Haudenschild is the one most likely to jump ship off the WoO Tour this year.

Yes I'm well familiar with who his primary sponsor is and the name that sponsors the WoO Tour.

But his car owner and him have been two of the most out-spoken against the WoO contract constraints and needing to find a way to get those guys more opportunities to make money. 

Sheldon could go true Outlaw/Brent Marks style or run the All-Stars and hit up all the High Limit events and probably have a good shot at making as much or money money than the WoO Tour without being forced to travel as much.

 

I would be surprised. His 5th in points would net him 113k next year. Give that up, plus not having his T-shirt trailer at most of the outlaw events will be tough to overcome. 

 

Marks won 2 100K or more races. I think It's pretty foolish to expect that going into a season, especially when someone like sweet didnt win any this year. Take away 375k from those 2 wins, and marks season is nowhere near as impressive. 

 

Yes, he did win them. Cant take that away from him. But i dont think budgeting on an eldora million, kings royal, husets nationals, or Knoxville nats is the best business move. You almost need to remove them from the equation because you'll do the same in them no matter what schedule type you run. 

 

Ends up being the other 80 outlaw races, with a tshirt trailer and 150k+ in point fund and tow money. Plus another 3-4 HL races. 

Or

80 or so races between WoO/HL/ASCoC. with no real point fund or tow money, and only allowed your shirt trailer at half of em. but you end up with 1 less west coast trip 

 

I would be very surprised if they were that mad.  Will be interesting to see play out over the next month or so though. Speculation is always a fun time. 

[Uncle tom]

5 hours ago, jumper12a said:

There isn’t just one specific thing. There have been times where maybe I didn’t agree with a specific decision. These things happen daily in life. You move on.

Specifically….what decisions did you not agree with ?

[jumper12a]

28 minutes ago, Uncle tom said:

Specifically….what decisions did you not agree with ?

Nothing major, just little things that pertain to the job over the years. I don’t keep track of every time something happens in my life that I may not agree with. Like I said, you move on.

[westracing01]

20 hours ago, jumper12a said:

You are assuming he has that option. He doesn’t own the 49 team, Kasey does. Kasey also has a major corporate sponsor to appease. Who says Napa doesn’t specify they must run the WoO? I’m pretty sure Napa really has enjoyed winning that championship the last 4 years. It’s very nice bragging rights for them. They put a lot of money into making that happen. Napa took full advantage of having Brad Sweet & Ron Capps as Champions in their respective race teams in 2022, I’d bet they expect that again.

Kasey was a Platinum driver who took his car to Port Royal for the Tusky instead of hauling out to the West Coast... I don't disagree with you that the boys cutting the checks call the shots. Could split the teams and have Napa/Sweet on the WoO while the other car(s) go real Outlaw.

19 hours ago, scottnorwood said:

1) So. You want Outlaws to be Outlaws. Interesting….

 

2) Today most of the WoO are more like In-laws… 

1) Yes, yes I do. 

2) Yes, yes they are.