Big News 2023.. or Rumors .. you decide...

[JMB]

14 hours ago, Sicklajoie said:

 

Yes, the NA$CAR national weekly champion for this past year got 25K.

In 2001, Ted Christopher won 15 of 18 races at Thompson and claimed the NASCAR Weekly Racing Series National Championship. TC received more than $160,000 from the $1.7 million NASCAR Weekly Racing Series point fund. TWENTY ONE YEARS AGO.

This, in a nutshell, shows you just how far NA$CAR has fallen.

 

2001 and 2002 was also a couple of years before NASCAR management started putting the screws to their weekly short tracks.(raising sanction fees to the point many weekly tracks could no longer afford to bring in the NASCAR regional tours)

[DowntheBackStretch]

17 hours ago, inthecuse said:

STSS and WRG have great contacts and partners.  WRG has the late model and sprints under them.  Deyo now has NASCAR on his side. If it were my product and my source of income,  raising the competition level would be the first priority.  Otherwise, you're not going to have any front gate income when people keep seeing the same show on repeat and then stop attending races. 

SDS had 9 drivers that entered all 19 shows - of those 9, only 4 had a feature win.  Matt-7, Mat-3, Jimmy-1, Max-1.

STSS North had 4 drivers start 10 races and 3 drivers start 11 races.  Matt won 5 (HALF of the series) and 90,000 more than the second place guy in points. 

STSS South had 8 drivers enter all 8 races out of 110 drivers - 1) Matt-$81,700, 2) Godown-$27,756, 3) Mike Gular-$12,981.

What does that say about the competition and excitement level? When you know the same guy is going to win - how exciting is that for a fan?  In all cases, 2nd place on down is so far behind it's mind-blowing.   

I was pretty much laughed at when I said this before, but start recruiting some top level drivers to drive mods.  If the answer is that it's not enough money for other top drivers to run mods - then why bother even raising the purses and point funds if you're going to have 1 full-time driver and a bunch of other drivers that treat it as a hobby or fit it in when they can?  Glenn made sure he had about 12 drivers that made their living racing mods to make sure there was a show put on for the fans.

I will ask this - if the whole point of raising purses, raising point funds, and expanding geographic areas is to make the sport grow - how long before a new fan loses interest because 1 guy wins all the titles and championships and there's basically no competition.  Or - how long before long time fans start spending their time and money elsewhere because they don't see any drivers coming into the program that race full-time and actually put up some wins to provide some excitement?    

 

Upon reading your post I dont disagree with a lot of what you are saying other than the fact that the fans are still showing up and not getting tired of the show and watching the same group of drivers win.  Until that changes, it will be full speed ahead with adding Nascar and spreading more money throughout the field so the drivers keep coming back.  I think you are wasting your breath.  I ask myself do I want to sit home tonight because Sheppard will probably win or do I want to go to the races and hopefully see him get beat by another driver? For now, I always choose to go and watch unless I have something going on and cant make it to the track. In that case I tune in to Flo to get my fix..

[FightForTheRail]

17 hours ago, inthecuse said:

I did get a laugh out of the give him 300k a year to stay home and quit.  Makes me wonder if he'd take such a deal if it were offered.

To your point, I guess there is no solution for the mod world.  I guess we just sit back and watch the same guy do the same thing for the next 15-20 years and see what happens. 

Or just find another division(s) and enjoy that. With streaming, it's never been easier to be a fan of other divisions and get into them. Dirt Modifieds aren't the only division out there. I have said this before on, but dirt Modifieds are so much less competitive than they were 30 years ago. Sprint Cars are so much more competitive than they were 30 years ago.

[John Williams]

3 hours ago, FightForTheRail said:

Sprint Cars are so much more competitive than they were 30 years ago.

Yeah, but sprint cars r dumb.

[BillSmith]

 

it is really weird ... Sprint car racing is basically in an historic golden age, with incredible talent, huge profile races, and with a recent Cup champion so heavily involved and multiple team owners with strong ties to NASCAR, getting all kinds of attention. The AllStars have returned to being a great circuit, the depth of quality in PA at the weekly 410 tracks is the best in recent memory.

It seems that even with all of the money and big races, Modified racing doesn't have that same sort of energy and excitement behind it. I don't know how to fix the problem, the promoters are putting up great money and having big races ... but when you see hallmark tracks like Orange County and Lebanon Valley struggling, nearly losing Grandview this past year ... it just seems that something needs to be done to change the momentum of the division.

[leroy]

5 hours ago, FightForTheRail said:

Or just find another division(s) and enjoy that. With streaming, it's never been easier to be a fan of other divisions and get into them. Dirt Modifieds aren't the only division out there. I have said this before on, but dirt Modifieds are so much less competitive than they were 30 years ago. Sprint Cars are so much more competitive than they were 30 years ago.

This^^^.   

But IF you are stuck on modifieds,  and that tired of Sheppard winning?  Then go to a race at a track where Sheppard is not.  Not all that hard to look at schedules and figure it out.  Several different tracks out there racing on the same night.  

I posted this in another thread, 18 of the 28 race events I attended in 2022 had modifieds on the card . Sheppard won just 3 of those.  Friesen 0.

 

 

[con7]

1 hour ago, BillSmith said:

 

it is really weird ... Sprint car racing is basically in an historic golden age, with incredible talent, huge profile races, and with a recent Cup champion so heavily involved and multiple team owners with strong ties to NASCAR, getting all kinds of attention. The AllStars have returned to being a great circuit, the depth of quality in PA at the weekly 410 tracks is the best in recent memory.

It seems that even with all of the money and big races, Modified racing doesn't have that same sort of energy and excitement behind it. I don't know how to fix the problem, the promoters are putting up great money and having big races ... but when you see hallmark tracks like Orange County and Lebanon Valley struggling, nearly losing Grandview this past year ... it just seems that something needs to be done to change the momentum of the division.

Sprint cars are national and always have a decent fan base even in lean times. And really only now because of streaming are they benefiting from that fan base: case in point they basically sold out Eldora for years at the Kings Royal and it got to the point that the 50/50 winner made more than the race winner one year. 

Modifieds are obviously more regional and their purse increases popped up basically out of nowhere with very little justification based on the size of their audience. That’s not sustainable. 

[rpm72x]

2 hours ago, BillSmith said:

 

it is really weird ... Sprint car racing is basically in an historic golden age, with incredible talent, huge profile races, and with a recent Cup champion so heavily involved and multiple team owners with strong ties to NASCAR, getting all kinds of attention. The AllStars have returned to being a great circuit, the depth of quality in PA at the weekly 410 tracks is the best in recent memory.

It seems that even with all of the money and big races, Modified racing doesn't have that same sort of energy and excitement behind it. I don't know how to fix the problem, the promoters are putting up great money and having big races ... but when you see hallmark tracks like Orange County and Lebanon Valley struggling, nearly losing Grandview this past year ... it just seems that something needs to be done to change the momentum of the division.

If there was a way to grab Hearn, McCreadie, all 3 Johnson’s, Horton, Hoffman, Plazek and Paine from the early to mid 90s and teleport them to today…….modified racing would be great again. There comes a time when any sport or form of entertainment has to stop living off of the past. Years ago we had this discussion on this forum. It’s constantly brought up that Alan and Danny need rides. No they don’t and they havnt for years, mod racing absolutely must develop new names and talent. Young Guys need opportunities that many have never been presented. We don’t know how many possible challengers to Matt have come and gone……spent what they had and moved on. Instead the legends of the sport, that are way past their prime continue to get rides and sponsors or the families with deep pockets field cars and the product sucks. Wrestling is a perfect example and blue print….it has gone through multiple “golden ages”. Each time led by all new talent that attracted both old and new fans. The NFL has had multiple great eras. Led by totally different names with some old vets hanging on and building story lines. Racing in general struggles at this and modified racing is the worst. 

[westracing01]

I suggest everyone read, then re-read Con7 and rpm72x posts above. They are dead on.

[Stewyfan44]

STSS coming to Canada is big news to me

 

 

[scottnorwood]

39 minutes ago, westracing01 said:

I suggest everyone read, then re-read Con7 and rpm72x posts above. They are dead on.

I agree except for the part when he talked about grabbing 3 Johnsons. 

[rpm72x]

1 hour ago, scottnorwood said:

I agree except for the part when he talked about grabbing 3 Johnsons. 

Haha….good point. 
 

I also found it funny that as this thread continued another was started about Jimmy Horton winning in Florida. Exactly my previous point Without grabbing Johnsons.

[BillSmith]

The wrestling analogy is spot on. Racing (like wrestling) relies on a constant influx of new talent. Track operators run races ... but PROMOTERS can build new faces into stars.

Of course, the combination of technology/mechanical knowledge to be competitive and cost to compete is a huge issue -- there are tons of sportsman teams out there that could be very competitive (maybe not winning, but competitive) Modified teams but they appear to be intimidated by the jump.

[robracer]

12 hours ago, rpm72x said:

If there was a way to grab Hearn, McCreadie, all 3 Johnson’s, Horton, Hoffman, Plazek and Paine from the early to mid 90s and teleport them to today…….modified racing would be great again. There comes a time when any sport or form of entertainment has to stop living off of the past. Years ago we had this discussion on this forum. It’s constantly brought up that Alan and Danny need rides. No they don’t and they havnt for years, mod racing absolutely must develop new names and talent. Young Guys need opportunities that many have never been presented. We don’t know how many possible challengers to Matt have come and gone……spent what they had and moved on. Instead the legends of the sport, that are way past their prime continue to get rides and sponsors or the families with deep pockets field cars and the product sucks. Wrestling is a perfect example and blue print….it has gone through multiple “golden ages”. Each time led by all new talent that attracted both old and new fans. The NFL has had multiple great eras. Led by totally different names with some old vets hanging on and building story lines. Racing in general struggles at this and modified racing is the worst. 

So how do car owners get better return on investment with a "young guy"? I completely agree with you on this.  Does the Northeast need more specials and less weekly racing? Obviously more money helps. With a Super Late you can go just about anywhere within 3-4hrs and race for 5k or more. Seems like Super Late and Sprint Car racing has more eyes on young guys because there's always a big purse race being covered. 

[The Rabbitt]

Personally rob, you elaborated on your post to far... forget the ROI on young guys... where did the car owners go? Racings priced a lot of them out of existence...

[rpm72x]

16 minutes ago, robracer said:

So how do car owners get better return on investment with a "young guy"? I completely agree with you on this.  Does the Northeast need more specials and less weekly racing? Obviously more money helps. With a Super Late you can go just about anywhere within 3-4hrs and race for 5k or more. Seems like Super Late and Sprint Car racing has more eyes on young guys because there's always a big purse race being covered. 

Car owners and sponsors use racing as a write off and spend money on it because they love the sport and want to be involved. None are getting a return on their investment no matter who is in the car. It’s a lost cause financially. There are hundreds of cheaper and more effective ways to promote a business other than being involved with motorsports in any way. Getting the best talent into good cars was another area where Glenn excelled. He had relationships with drivers, owners and sponsors. Glenn used those relationships to keep the best talent in rides and supporting his shows. It would never bother Glenn to push an owner to dump an aging less competitive name out to get a young up and comer in his place. It’s part of building the best product and creating a show. 
 

The Rabbit is correct. The sport is very thin on owners…..especially those willing to spend what it takes to field championship teams on a series level. There were far more years ago. Cost certainly pushed some out, many have gotten older, retired or sadly passed. The cost and lack of building the sport over the last few decades has deterred the next generation of business owners from diving into ownership. Sure costs of everything has exploded……but there are a lot of 2nd generation business owners who instead of following in their parents footsteps of being involved in dirt modified racing have spent a fortune of other forms of entertainment. The product has started to get stale to the fans……and they are the absolute last people to get to that point. If the people in the stands are starting to lose interest……the people paying the bills pitside lost interest a decade ago or more. The most important part of Racing involvement is having fun. Not cost. It has never been about making money……so it has to be fun. When that stops for a multitude of reasons the sponsors and owners get out. 

[robracer]

30 minutes ago, rpm72x said:

Car owners and sponsors use racing as a write off and spend money on it because they love the sport and want to be involved. None are getting a return on their investment no matter who is in the car. It’s a lost cause financially. There are hundreds of cheaper and more effective ways to promote a business other than being involved with motorsports in any way. Getting the best talent into good cars was another area where Glenn excelled. He had relationships with drivers, owners and sponsors. Glenn used those relationships to keep the best talent in rides and supporting his shows. It would never bother Glenn to push an owner to dump an aging less competitive name out to get a young up and comer in his place. It’s part of building the best product and creating a show. 
 

The Rabbit is correct. The sport is very thin on owners…..especially those willing to spend what it takes to field championship teams on a series level. There were far more years ago. Cost certainly pushed some out, many have gotten older, retired or sadly passed. The cost and lack of building the sport over the last few decades has deterred the next generation of business owners from diving into ownership. Sure costs of everything has exploded……but there are a lot of 2nd generation business owners who instead of following in their parents footsteps of being involved in dirt modified racing have spent a fortune of other forms of entertainment. The product has started to get stale to the fans……and they are the absolute last people to get to that point. If the people in the stands are starting to lose interest……the people paying the bills pitside lost interest a decade ago or more. The most important part of Racing involvement is having fun. Not cost. It has never been about making money……so it has to be fun. When that stops for a multitude of reasons the sponsors and owners get out. 

So the big question is why isn't it "fun" anymore? Is it because it's no longer a fun hobby but instead a business? Is it because lower car counts have taken some of that excitment out of winning or running well? Is it because of the "politics" in racing? 

[leroy]

1 hour ago, The Rabbitt said:

Personally rob, you elaborated on your post to far... forget the ROI on young guys... where did the car owners go? Racings priced a lot of them out of existence...

That is one thing right there. Not a lot of helmet carrying modified drivers these days. Most drivers own part of the race team and/or do most of the work in the shop.   

Also , when drivers like the Johnsons  ,Hearn , McCreadie ,etc started out. Was there a sportsman class to race? The sportsman class came along in the mid80's?  Many of the mod drivers of old, started out in the modified class.  Be it small block or big block. They basically still jumped into a headline mod division.  There was no sportsman  ,let alone rookie sportsman ,new legends etc.   

[luke81]

13 minutes ago, robracer said:

So the big question is why isn't it "fun" anymore? Is it because it's no longer a fun hobby but instead a business? Is it because lower car counts have taken some of that excitment out of winning or running well? Is it because of the "politics" in racing? 

I don't know that I think racing isn't "fun" anymore, but there is a tipping point of expense to be competitive that makes the spending part of it not fun.  20 years ago or so a guy could have a decently successful small business and it could fund a fairly competitive race car.  But when you're now talking burning through 6 figures per season to start with that's a very different level of investment that excludes a lot of people.  And I'm not talking about the guy who shows up fully knowing he's unloading to run 14th at best and have fun, because that person is valuable but that's not where the next hot young driver is going to be found from.  I think that divide between the top few teams and the rest of the field is the widest it's ever been and that keeps people out.  We're in an era where a competitive engine costs more than an average person earns in a year and the return, especially in NE mods, is very very minimal.         

[robracer]

16 minutes ago, luke81 said:

I don't know that I think racing isn't "fun" anymore, but there is a tipping point of expense to be competitive that makes the spending part of it not fun.  20 years ago or so a guy could have a decently successful small business and it could fund a fairly competitive race car.  But when you're now talking burning through 6 figures per season to start with that's a very different level of investment that excludes a lot of people.  And I'm not talking about the guy who shows up fully knowing he's unloading to run 14th at best and have fun, because that person is valuable but that's not where the next hot young driver is going to be found from.  I think that divide between the top few teams and the rest of the field is the widest it's ever been and that keeps people out.  We're in an era where a competitive engine costs more than an average person earns in a year and the return, especially in NE mods, is very very minimal.         

Sadly with most track not handicapping anymore that 14th place car that every track needs to survive can't even sniff a win therefore has a harder time attracting sponsors. That just leads to that wide gap you speak of between the top and bottom of a field.

[leroy]

37 minutes ago, luke81 said:

I don't know that I think racing isn't "fun" anymore, but there is a tipping point of expense to be competitive that makes the spending part of it not fun.  20 years ago or so a guy could have a decently successful small business and it could fund a fairly competitive race car.  But when you're now talking burning through 6 figures per season to start with that's a very different level of investment that excludes a lot of people.  And I'm not talking about the guy who shows up fully knowing he's unloading to run 14th at best and have fun, because that person is valuable but that's not where the next hot young driver is going to be found from.  I think that divide between the top few teams and the rest of the field is the widest it's ever been and that keeps people out.  We're in an era where a competitive engine costs more than an average person earns in a year and the return, especially in NE mods, is very very minimal.         

That is it. 

New drivers/teams are showing up at various tracks. But for the most part it is at the sportsman level.

[Sicklajoie]

2 hours ago, leroy said:

That is one thing right there. Not a lot of helmet carrying modified drivers these days. Most drivers own part of the race team and/or do most of the work in the shop.   

Also , when drivers like the Johnsons  ,Hearn , McCreadie ,etc started out. Was there a sportsman class to race? The sportsman class came along in the mid80's?  Many of the mod drivers of old, started out in the modified class.  Be it small block or big block. They basically still jumped into a headline mod division.  There was no sportsman  ,let alone rookie sportsman ,new legends etc.   

The 320 class in the early 80s could kind of be called a sportsman class back then, although I think the only rule was being 320 CI.

[rpm72x]

4 hours ago, robracer said:

So the big question is why isn't it "fun" anymore? Is it because it's no longer a fun hobby but instead a business? Is it because lower car counts have taken some of that excitment out of winning or running well? Is it because of the "politics" in racing? 

The costs are certainly a huge factor. The fact that you buy speed instead of build it is a factor. The fact that when you look across the pits and realize that so many of the people who made it fun, made it exciting and something you desperately looked forward to weekly, are gone……that takes the fun out. The influx of new people doesn’t compare to the exodus of old. There’s lots of new sportsman teams…..many of which are purely there for fun and will never be serious racers……but I can quickly name dozens more whole families that have moved on from racing than I can name new families that have jumped in. The atmosphere is different, the interaction after the races is different. It’s much more of a business. When you spend 40-80 hours a week running a business…..the last thing you want to do is spend your free time and all the money on another non-profit business. The racing atmosphere at one time made all the work and expense worth it. Not just the wins but the time spent before and after the races……that’s gone. And I have no idea how you recreate that. 

[Jack Brady]

4 hours ago, leroy said:

That is one thing right there. Not a lot of helmet carrying modified drivers these days. Most drivers own part of the race team and/or do most of the work in the shop.   

Also , when drivers like the Johnsons  ,Hearn , McCreadie ,etc started out. Was there a sportsman class to race? The sportsman class came along in the mid80's?  Many of the mod drivers of old, started out in the modified class.  Be it small block or big block. They basically still jumped into a headline mod division.  There was no sportsman  ,let alone rookie sportsman ,new legends etc.   

Originally the 320 class was the Sportsman class, that had been around since the 50s. In the 80s is when Glenn created the Sportsman class where the engines were supposed to stay stock with 2 barrel carburetors. The majority of the drivers would use used modified tires and parts. Since then, the Sportsman class has risen to a completely different level. So now they don't want rookies in their class, so lets make another class. We use to just have street stocks, they some how became Pro Stocks and we got the pure stocks. So lets get out the 4cyl stocks now.  Now we have to sit through 6-8 different divisions. Because you now have to have rookie 4 cylinders and rookie sportsman, and blah blah blah. You may get two or three drivers out of these class that are good enough to be competitive in the Big Blocks. I don't think its a driver issue that is hurting Big Block modifieds, its the lack of competitive teams. I truly think there are drivers out there just as good as Matt is, but nowhere close to his team. You can throw money at a team all you want, but Matt's team is just way ahead of everyone else. Between Matt, Randy, and the rest of the people that help Matt at the garage or the track they just have come up with something no one else has been able to figure out. I'm sure Bicknell would love to know what Matt is doing differently. Matt is the best driver in a modified, but he has also built the best team. 

And another reason most younger people aren't getting interested in watching Dirt Big Block modifieds is because they can actually go online and race them themselves. How do you compete with that? How do you compete with actually being able to race against people all over the world in a Big Block Modified or go to the track and watch other people do what you can't afford to do? Though a few of the WoO iRacers have now started to purchase 305 Sprint Cars lately. But Big Block Mods are once again just in the Northeast and a few in southeast.  I've been watching a lot of the iRacing on Dirtvision and Youtube and the winners of these races are making $300 and never left their house. Plus, they are backed by teams like TSR. Best part is its just a one class race. :).

[jimbo8574]

12 minutes ago, Jack Brady said:

And another reason most younger people aren't getting interested in watching Dirt Big Block modifieds is because they can actually go online and race them themselves. How do you compete with that? How do you compete with actually being able to race against people all over the world in a Big Block Modified or go to the track and watch other people do what you can't afford to do? Though a few of the WoO iRacers have now started to purchase 305 Sprint Cars lately. But Big Block Mods are once again just in the Northeast and a few in southeast.  I've been watching a lot of the iRacing on Dirtvision and Youtube and the winners of these races are making $300 and never left their house. Plus, they are backed by teams like TSR. Best part is its just a one class race. :).

Do you really think we have lost real racers to i-Racing?  We had a few people move from i-Racing to real racing.  But I don't think (granted I pay almost no attention to i-Racing) we are losing drivers who would normally be wheeling a race car to the I-Racing.  

The online competition is fun sure.  But its not the same as those who actually race real cars.  Isn't much of it kids who play video games on XBox or PS4 who have a bit more money to spend on a "race rig" and PC?