Jack Brady Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Absolutely not, I don't think we are losing drivers to iRacing. No one giving up a real ride to go do iRacing. But many kids that could possibly get in to racing or even get interested in going to watch racing would rather be racing online. Probably losing more potential fans than potential drivers. Like I said there are kids and a lot of grownups all around the world who love racing our type of modifieds on iRacing. They are fans in the sense that they may watch on Flo or Dirtvision, but you'll never see them at the track. I've debated it myself many times on whether to go see a live race again. When I can log on to my computer and be racing myself against others in just a few minutes. And I know that no one is cheating and I'm only going to be beat by someone who out drives me. And I still get that amazing adrenaline boost when I'm racing online, especially when I win. And like people said the owners have just dried up, most people getting in to racing these days come from families with money. I can spend a few thousand $$ and I'm set to race with no maintenance or ever worrying about the motor or chassis wearing out. I don't have to spend tons of cash on the needed safety apparel. My tire and fuel bill are $0.00. I don't even need a garage. There are a few very very few, that are actually taking their success from online and being able to move to a real-life racing scenario. The top e-racer in the world was able to go to an actually racing school for free and actually excelled in the program. Had never been out of his hometown in the Netherlands before. So where is he know? Still racing online. Sure, he might have been able to become a great driver, the instructors thought so, but without money behind you there is no place to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancoh Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 On 1/24/2023 at 1:32 PM, FightForTheRail said: Or just find another division(s) and enjoy that. With streaming, it's never been easier to be a fan of other divisions and get into them. Dirt Modifieds aren't the only division out there. I have said this before on, but dirt Modifieds are so much less competitive than they were 30 years ago. Sprint Cars are so much more competitive than they were 30 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancoh Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 With weekly handicapping here in Pa much more passing in modified races versus sprint cars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DowntheBackStretch Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Looks like we now have 6 pages of a lot of hullabaloo about nothing. Im reading on the front page that Race Director Dean Reynolds and Promoter Brett Deyo both say things are growing and looking great for both of their organizations heading into the upcoming 23 race season. Not sure why we have 6 pages of comments that appear to state the opposite of what these two gentlemen are claiming. The drivers are the show and they say the drivers are happy! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Coleates Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 21 minutes ago, DowntheBackStretch said: Looks like we now have 6 pages of a lot of hullabaloo about nothing. Im reading on the front page that Race Director Dean Reynolds and Promoter Brett Deyo both say things are growing and looking great for both of their organizations heading into the upcoming 23 race season. Not sure why we have 6 pages of comments that appear to state the opposite of what these two gentlemen are claiming. The drivers are the show and they say the drivers are happy! But are the customers happy? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpm72x Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 46 minutes ago, DowntheBackStretch said: Looks like we now have 6 pages of a lot of hullabaloo about nothing. Im reading on the front page that Race Director Dean Reynolds and Promoter Brett Deyo both say things are growing and looking great for both of their organizations heading into the upcoming 23 race season. Not sure why we have 6 pages of comments that appear to state the opposite of what these two gentlemen are claiming. The drivers are the show and they say the drivers are happy! What do you expect them to say? Modified racing sucks and is in a bad state? Could It be worse? Absolutely. Is it better than racing in many other parts of the country…..absolutely. Is it a far cry from its heyday……absolutely. Years ago tracks were not happy to have 16-20 car fields. That’s a good season average at most mod tracks now. To believe modified racing is headed in the right direction just because there have been some big money races is stupidity. Not quite as stupid as believing you are racing a big block modified when you and a bunch of 12 year olds are on I racing……but stupid none the less. Are you a real NFL quarterback just because you played as one on madden? Claiming that’s racing is the most asinine thing I’ve ever heard. With that said….I racing has absolutely zero to do with losing car owners and sponsors. It was huge during Covid……but has since turned back into just a video game. 95% of The people that are on there were never going to build a racecar. Hell 90% have never turned a wrench. Now, if you want to say the fact that the younger generation are just not as intrigued by cars in general…..you are on to something. People used to work on your own vehicles……go race mom and dads impala when you were supposed to be going to the movies. Those days are gone. Many racers and crew guys started as buddies working on cars and building a racecar……that’s ancient history. Now if dad doesn’t buy you one, you are on a computer, playing a video game or participating in some other sport. I’d bet many of the “family” teams are dads living through their children and pushing them to race. There has not been anywhere near enough focus put on building interest in the younger generation. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leroy Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 28 minutes ago, Mike Coleates said: But are the customers happy? I still enjoy going to the races. Did have a couple times with some real shitty track conditions last season. And a least a couple rain outs. But overall. The majority of the time I still have fun at the race tracks I enjoy watching dirt racing at home too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthecuse Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 I feel like we're in this weird time in modified racing where it's like we're watching a great collegiate athlete that's a 5th year senior and absolutely dominating every stat. Only in the mod world, instead of a 5th year senior, we have a 30th year senior just crushing all the rookie freshman that come in because he's been in the game for 30 years, knows everything and more about mods, and has plenty of sponsors to have the best equipment. The freshman/new racer doesn't even stand a chance to get on his feet, get any victory lane glory, or the big '22 purse money and everyone that could offer some equal or greater competition has moved on to other life or racing commitments or scaled back racing mods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthecuse Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 1 hour ago, DowntheBackStretch said: Looks like we now have 6 pages of a lot of hullabaloo about nothing. Im reading on the front page that Race Director Dean Reynolds and Promoter Brett Deyo both say things are growing and looking great for both of their organizations heading into the upcoming 23 race season. Not sure why we have 6 pages of comments that appear to state the opposite of what these two gentlemen are claiming. The drivers are the show and they say the drivers are happy! Well, that is their job to give a nice positive optimistic view, build excitement about their product, and tell us that '23 will be edge-of-your-seat-excitement! Did you also see in the article with Deyo that he said only a few people are winning in mods. I wouldn't expect him to dwell on that stat. That's our job. He also mentioned that he cut back on the P1 ELITE purse because I am guessing HALMAR is no longer contributing and he is working on some sponsorship for that series. He also mentions that he is paying drivers 1k to start. Maybe I am reading between the lines but the 1k to start is just to it least entice drivers to show up to race and know they can it least have their nightly expenses paid for (providing they keep the car sunny-side-up). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwt Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 There is a lot more racing going on with short track racing than than just for the lead. That is why it does not show up well on tv. If you can’t appreciate that than don’t go but I assume most people that come here are watching the whole show. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chas71 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 We need more Fulton's, Brewerton's, Grandview's and Big Diamond's and less Orange County's, Lebanon Valley's, Fonda's and Canandaigua's. IMO, the racing on the shorter tracks is so much better. And, that doesn't just apply to mods. Watching a crate car on a half mile is like watching paint dry. We can talk about $$, but when the weekly warrior feels they need a stacker to race, well, that's just nuts. I think if we had 3 Matt Sheppard's, we'd be fine. Unfortunately, we don't and it wouldn't surprise me if Sheppard wins 50 races this year. And, despite the fact that I like Matt, that makes the racing less enjoyable. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpm72x Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 8 minutes ago, jwt said: There is a lot more racing going on with short track racing than than just for the lead. That is why it does not show up well on tv. If you can’t appreciate that than don’t go but I assume most people that come here are watching the whole show. While I agree there can be some great racing throughout the entire field……it’s tough to spark interest by promoting the battle for 11th each night. “Come to the races where the winner is predetermined but the competition in the back half of the field is incredible.” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpm72x Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 8 minutes ago, chas71 said: We need more Fulton's, Brewerton's, Grandview's and Big Diamond's and less Orange County's, Lebanon Valley's, Fonda's and Canandaigua's. IMO, the racing on the shorter tracks is so much better. And, that doesn't just apply to mods. Watching a crate car on a half mile is like watching paint dry. We can talk about $$, but when the weekly warrior feels they need a stacker to race, well, that's just nuts. I think if we had 3 Matt Sheppard's, we'd be fine. Unfortunately, we don't and it wouldn't surprise me if Sheppard wins 50 races this year. And, despite the fact that I like Matt, that makes the racing less enjoyable. Ohh boy that will ruffle feathers that may not have flattened back out yet. Eliminating Middletown ….outrageous!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwt Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 20 minutes ago, rpm72x said: While I agree there can be some great racing throughout the entire field……it’s tough to spark interest by promoting the battle for 11th each night. “Come to the races where the winner is predetermined but the competition in the back half of the field is incredible.” A lot of positions between Matt and 11. Promote Matt coming through the field and the rest of the racing going on. The race for second isn’t any different if Matt isn’t there and they are going for the lead. Racing is racing if that is what you are there for. To each their own, I can be entertained with a good run at the Chilibowl in the d main or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpm72x Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 9 hours ago, jwt said: A lot of positions between Matt and 11. Promote Matt coming through the field and the rest of the racing going on. The race for second isn’t any different if Matt isn’t there and they are going for the lead. Racing is racing if that is what you are there for. To each their own, I can be entertained with a good run at the Chilibowl in the d main or less. That’s absolutely true. You can have 2 NFL teams with 2-13 records produce a great game……the masses just won’t care to watch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke81 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 18 hours ago, rpm72x said: The costs are certainly a huge factor. The fact that you buy speed instead of build it is a factor. The fact that when you look across the pits and realize that so many of the people who made it fun, made it exciting and something you desperately looked forward to weekly, are gone……that takes the fun out. The influx of new people doesn’t compare to the exodus of old. There’s lots of new sportsman teams…..many of which are purely there for fun and will never be serious racers……but I can quickly name dozens more whole families that have moved on from racing than I can name new families that have jumped in. The atmosphere is different, the interaction after the races is different. It’s much more of a business. When you spend 40-80 hours a week running a business…..the last thing you want to do is spend your free time and all the money on another non-profit business. The racing atmosphere at one time made all the work and expense worth it. Not just the wins but the time spent before and after the races……that’s gone. And I have no idea how you recreate that. This is a great, great point here. Used to park the car after the feature, give it a quick once over and have a quick chat about how it worked and maybe write some notes, then spend the next hour or so walking around chatting with everyone, talking shop and showing each other the new tire mark we left on the others quarter. Now you walk around at some tracks and pretty much every night someone wants to beat someone else with a radius rod, half the people have never spoken to each other, teams are doing F1 style teardowns in the pits before the car even goes in the trailer, etc. 22 hours ago, robracer said: Sadly with most track not handicapping anymore that 14th place car that every track needs to survive can't even sniff a win therefore has a harder time attracting sponsors. That just leads to that wide gap you speak of between the top and bottom of a field. Tremendously true part that I forgot about. If handicapping didn't exist I don't think we would have raced at Woodhull as long as we did. We were that mid pack team starting in the front couple rows most weeks, with the rocket fast dudes starting in the back. And because of it occasionally we squeezed out a top 10, even a few top 5s and that felt like a win to us. If we had been trying to come from 20th each week, getting tangled in every mess and getting lapped by halfway we probably would have stopped racing a lot sooner. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westracing01 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Despite the length and scattered thoughts, this is a very interesting and important thread... The two things I've really gotten out of this, and it's what I've already known since it's our teams biggest hurdle really... Cost and time commitment to race. The costs are self explanatory. The time commitment, hell, we're 2 nights in the shop and 1 night at the track and that is almost too much. To be competitive and really do it right, it should be 4 nights in the shop and 1 at the track. We just don't have that kind of time to commit so we make do with what we can give. We're not losing any drivers to sim racing. We may well be losing fans though. Don't belittle the small but often fanatically loyal sim racing crowd. I don't care if you think it's just a video game because the people that do it DON'T think that. And it is FAR more than some PS4 or Xbox on a TV. MANY, MANY people have very good sim rigs at home. My personal rig, I could've easily bought a good used race car for what mine cost to build. I didn't because 1) I already help on a real car and 2) I can afford to crash in iRacing when I can't in real life... Come to think of it, kind of circles back around to the cost of real racing huh? Anyway, I digress. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rabbitt Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 As an IRacer... I will say this... Ive gotten on track.. I was shocked how close some of it was (steering input, throttle input, general race craft). Why do I do it? I have a good time passing cars and the challenge of it... If this was 40 years ago (and I wasnt 1 year old...) I would have a car.. why? Cause I could have afforded it, and that would be my thrill.. Now, there is no way in hell I could afford to do it on my salary, so I take what I can get. Are there people who would have been racers out there sticking to the computer... Yes.. I can build a monster computer for less than I can buy the safety equipment I would want to have. I guess it depends on how you want to look at it... IRacing keeps me from spending money I dont have to feed the addiction... but if I had the money, which is wayyyyy beyond what I actually have, I wouldnt be regressing to iracing by choice. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DowntheBackStretch Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 18 hours ago, Mike Coleates said: But are the customers happy? Remember, there are 2 revenue streams from customers. The customers that sit in the bleachers and watch from outside the driver pit area and the the customers who are the show. The ones that prep and drive the race cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DowntheBackStretch Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 15 hours ago, chas71 said: We need more Fulton's, Brewerton's, Grandview's and Big Diamond's and less Orange County's, Lebanon Valley's, Fonda's and Canandaigua's. IMO, the racing on the shorter tracks is so much better. And, that doesn't just apply to mods. Watching a crate car on a half mile is like watching paint dry. We can talk about $$, but when the weekly warrior feels they need a stacker to race, well, that's just nuts. I think if we had 3 Matt Sheppard's, we'd be fine. Unfortunately, we don't and it wouldn't surprise me if Sheppard wins 50 races this year. And, despite the fact that I like Matt, that makes the racing less enjoyable. Friendly advice to you.... stop watching Crate cars... Lol... just kidding. I like the track at Brewerton but nothing beats watching the cars going through 3 and 4 at Fonda. Or stand down in turn 1 and you will realize the speed they reach at the end of the front straightaway. Brewerton cant produce that. But I do like Brewerton. Just sayin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DowntheBackStretch Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 18 hours ago, rpm72x said: What do you expect them to say? Modified racing sucks and is in a bad state? Could It be worse? Absolutely. Is it better than racing in many other parts of the country…..absolutely. Is it a far cry from its heyday……absolutely. Years ago tracks were not happy to have 16-20 car fields. That’s a good season average at most mod tracks now. To believe modified racing is headed in the right direction just because there have been some big money races is stupidity. Not quite as stupid as believing you are racing a big block modified when you and a bunch of 12 year olds are on I racing……but stupid none the less. Are you a real NFL quarterback just because you played as one on madden? Claiming that’s racing is the most asinine thing I’ve ever heard. With that said….I racing has absolutely zero to do with losing car owners and sponsors. It was huge during Covid……but has since turned back into just a video game. 95% of The people that are on there were never going to build a racecar. Hell 90% have never turned a wrench. Now, if you want to say the fact that the younger generation are just not as intrigued by cars in general…..you are on to something. People used to work on your own vehicles……go race mom and dads impala when you were supposed to be going to the movies. Those days are gone. Many racers and crew guys started as buddies working on cars and building a racecar……that’s ancient history. Now if dad doesn’t buy you one, you are on a computer, playing a video game or participating in some other sport. I’d bet many of the “family” teams are dads living through their children and pushing them to race. There has not been anywhere near enough focus put on building interest in the younger generation. I knew before you even responded what your first two sentences would be. And I dont necessarily believe that it is headed in the right direction. I probably feel like most people feel about a lot of issues we have in the world today. There is not much I can do about it and I will probably be dead by the time Dirt Track Racing becomes a thing of the past. So I will continue to enjoy it as much as I can. I absolutely love racing on dirt and I dont understand why more people dont enjoy watching it as much as I do. Im sure its because I first started going to the different tracks as a five year old with my parents. Always going into the pits after the race. And I do get tired of watching the same drivers win at the same tracks but all you have to do is what Leroy suggested and go some place where you will not see the same driver win every week. And rpm72x, you know how this all can be fixed but the promoters will not fix it. So the beat goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leroy Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 15 hours ago, chas71 said: We need more Fulton's, Brewerton's, Grandview's and Big Diamond's and less Orange County's, Lebanon Valley's, Fonda's and Canandaigua's. IMO, the racing on the shorter tracks is so much better. And, that doesn't just apply to mods. Watching a crate car on a half mile is like watching paint dry. We can talk about $$, but when the weekly warrior feels they need a stacker to race, well, that's just nuts. I think if we had 3 Matt Sheppard's, we'd be fine. Unfortunately, we don't and it wouldn't surprise me if Sheppard wins 50 races this year. And, despite the fact that I like Matt, that makes the racing less enjoyable. For my money ,the best racing in the northeast is at Port Royal. which just happens to be a .....half mile. So much goes into whether or not the racing is good. Not just the size of the track Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheelsUpHammerDown10 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 3 hours ago, luke81 said: This is a great, great point here. Used to park the car after the feature, give it a quick once over and have a quick chat about how it worked and maybe write some notes, then spend the next hour or so walking around chatting with everyone, talking shop and showing each other the new tire mark we left on the others quarter. Now you walk around at some tracks and pretty much every night someone wants to beat someone else with a radius rod, half the people have never spoken to each other, teams are doing F1 style teardowns in the pits before the car even goes in the trailer, etc. Tremendously true part that I forgot about. If handicapping didn't exist I don't think we would have raced at Woodhull as long as we did. We were that mid pack team starting in the front couple rows most weeks, with the rocket fast dudes starting in the back. And because of it occasionally we squeezed out a top 10, even a few top 5s and that felt like a win to us. If we had been trying to come from 20th each week, getting tangled in every mess and getting lapped by halfway we probably would have stopped racing a lot sooner. IIRC, one year or maybe a couple of years at Woodhull they went to a system where first and second-place cars from the previous week started 15th and 16th the next week no matter what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westracing01 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 1 hour ago, leroy said: For my money ,the best racing in the northeast is at Port Royal. which just happens to be a .....half mile. So much goes into whether or not the racing is good. Not just the size of the track I've always prefered the big fast tracks. A lot of the enjoyment comes from what the individual prefers. Some like bull rings, side by side banging wheels. Some like high speed, hanging the car out on the edge of disaster lap after lap. Personal preference. Side by side lap after lap is great... And so is a more tactical race where one driver stalks the other looking for an opportunity. The track farthest from my home is the one I went to the most times... They're doing something right down there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpm72x Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 1 hour ago, WheelsUpHammerDown10 said: IIRC, one year or maybe a couple of years at Woodhull they went to a system where first and second-place cars from the previous week started 15th and 16th the next week no matter what? At one time Brewerton implemented a rule that stated once a driver won a race, they could start no better than 8th for the season. It’s a great rule, that eliminates the teams that win or take a stab at winning and then park it early for 3 weeks to start on the hammer again. There’s always a few guys that are notorious for that, and it’s the 1 flaw with the handicap system. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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